A few weeks ago, I was talking with some students when the subject of one of my favorite past-times (obsessions?) came up in the conversation. I was sharing excitedly this new-found love of mine and the students were staring at me bewildered … eyes WIDE open … amazed. They had no clue that I enjoyed this thing that I was sharing about and wanted to know more about it. It occurred to me that of the women I know who are posting here, probably each one of us has some hidden piece of knowledge that our readers might be surprised to know … or maybe even find comfort in knowing about us. For instance, who is to say that just because I write here about [insert topic] that I don’t also enjoy [insert the opposite topic]? Aren’t we all, in some form or fashion, true dichotomies?

Okay … I’m not trying to be weird (I’m waiting for some backlashing here … KJ – that’d be a role for you or Nicole right?), but I do want our readers to have an opportunity to know us better. We are not just women who are friends and seeking to encourage this younger generation of women coming up through college about faith and finding identity in Christ. We have individual personalities, interests, and desires that make us, in all reality, quite different from each other. So … my question is this: What is something that you like to do that not many people know about? Maybe it’s watching a certain TV show, or eating a certain food, or doing a certain hobby. Maybe it is an obsession with cutting your toenails … I don’t know! But this is a judgment-free zone so fill us in!

p.s. Okay … I guess I’ll share mine: I am a HUGE UFC fan … if it’s a Mixed Martial Arts competition, I’m there watching it. One of my 2007 resolutions (sorry Nicole – forgot to add this one on your previous post) is to actually make it to a UFC event to watch it live! Anyone have any connections out there??? Anyone???

UFC … what the Fred is that? I’m totally out of the loop on that one, Nik.

Who else will go first, because I feel really weird writing about myself.

You all are WIMPS! Come on! This is not a hard question!!

UFC stands for “Ultimate Fighting Championship” and is really just the organization’s name for Mixed Martial Arts competitions. It is the fastest growing sport in our country right now — pulling more viewers (of males 18-34) than the NBA, NFL, or MLB combined. But trust me, Jenn, you are not the only one out there who would not know of the UFC. I find that VERY few women like the sport.

I hope to hear from more of you … you’re really crushing me here … (Nicole – stop smiling with satisfaction!)

Okay, I will break the standoff. No judment here Nikki! Martial Arts rock. (You just gave me a “Say Anything” 80’s flic flashback with that one … anyone catch that reference? I would be most impressed if so. Rent that movie, young readers.) Anyway, I myself, love to go to a class at my gym called Body Combat. It is a kickboxing class. I like to think of myself as Jennifer Garner on “Alias” when I’m there. I have a killer jump kick. What else …? I am passionate about lip balm, dessert, food in general, my kids, adoption since some of my kids are adopted, good coffee, certain reality shows, that if my DVR blew-up and they didn’t tape I would probably cry, like American Idol and The Amazing Race, and evidently, run-on sentences.

How’s that?

Love it! Thank you Jenn for being so brave — we’ll see if our other bloggers are as courageous as you …

And for the record, I just TODAY got asked about a t-shirt I was wearing while working out at the gym. The t-shirt read “I (heart) UFC.” It was a girl who was a fitness trainer there and she informed me that she, also, is a huge fan so I am NOT ALONE!! YIPPEE!!

p.s. Did I mention that I just got asked by my mixed martial arts trainer (don’t ask) to “corner” a fighter at the Golden Gloves Boxing tournament this weekend? HOORAH!

Okay, now you’re speaking jibberish again. Corner a fighter? I’m trying to picture you doing such a thing, but it’s very hard since I don’t know what that means. Please give me a mental picture. Does Kevin know about this?

Is this just a conversation between the two of us Nikki? Good talking to you. I’m learning new things about you.

Hilarious! Yes – it seems to be just the two of us talking — where are the rest of our faithful CL bloggers??? HELLO? ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE???

Okay, okay! Gimme a break – my laptop hard-drive crashed so I was without a computer for awhile. And, I have to admit, sharing my “quirks” with you all is right up there with going to the dentist. But I’ll do my best …

I am a loyal American Idol fan (all five seasons), and I make popcorn on the stove every Tuesday night while I watch the Hollywood auditions through the final show. I set my alarm for odd times, like 5:43am or 6:27am. It’s more motivating than 5:30am or 6:30am. I am a stay-at-home mom, but in my free time (haha!!) I am a songwriter, a natural childbirth instructor, a mentor, and a voracious emailer. I’ve been abroad twice (Israel and Tanzania). Favorite treat: Biscotti’s and coffee with lots of fru fru creamer. Collegiate confession: In college, I decided Rugby might be fun, so I went to the first practice … after getting tossed around and rammed into a bit, I told the coach I had to go to the restroom … and never came back.

I think you are all sleeping by now so I’ll let someone else go!

It’s hard to find something as odd as a woman obsessed with watching men fight to the bloody end in a cage, but none-the-less, I’ll stop avoiding the blog and confess my own obsession (although, just some friendly advice Nikki … I’d be careful who you tell about “cornering” a half dressed man in a cage fight … just a thought).

Anyway, I am a 24 fanatic. Yes, the show 24, with Jack Bauer saving the world from terrorism … hands down the best show on television. Nevermind that less people died on D-day than in one episode of 24. Season 6 just started and we recorded the first four episodes on our DVR and planned to watch them all together with some friends (on a Friday night, none-the-less, which I’m sure officially makes me a loser). The night before our scheduled watching, our DVR crashed and we lost the episodes. I nearly had a nervous breakdown, which my husband says is a sad commentary on my character.

I also set my clock 23 minutes ahead because it makes me feel like I’m not getting up as early in the morning as I really am. I eat peanut butter and jelly for breakfast every day (and sometimes for lunch too). Oh, and as you know from my New Year’s post, I consume all of my fruits and vegetables in pill form. I guess Nikki might not be the weirdest one among us after all.

Alright … this is my very first CL post so here goes …
I don’t really have any weird interests or anything like that. But I have a lot of weird things about me. It’s very humerous to me that my first posting will have to do with personal quirks, as I could be one of the most quietly quirky individuals around. So now all that anyone will know about me is that I’m very quirky. Great.
I would like to do mine in a list form, as I like lists.

• 1) I can’t STAND blinking lights or repetitive noises. They drive me COMPLETELY INSANE. Also, the loops in “sleep machines.” Seriously … does no one else hear them?
• 2) I frequently catch glimpses of myself and don’t recognize it’s me for a split second and think, “whoa, she’s really pretty.” And then I realize it’s me. I do the same with my car, which isn’t even that cool. Funny. I have ridiculously high self-esteem. It’s a blessing and a curse.
• 3) I have Opposite Body Dismorphic Disorder. OBDD … I just made that abbreviation up. It’s where you think you’re skinnier than you really are. I’m the only person known to have this disease. Part of the symptomology is that at the exact same moment someone takes my picture, my face swells up to about 25% larger than its normal size. Then it goes down as soon as the flash goes off. Surprisingly, there’s no stretch marks. It’s a very rare disease.
• 4) I make up roughly 1 new abbreviation per day. Some of my favorites are: CCD (Crazy Cursive Day), BYH (Bless Your Heart), I made up CCG yesterday (Crazy Christian Guilt) and apparently, OBDD is the latest disease added to the DSM.
• 5) I have a COMPLETE INABILITY to remember ANYTHING I do which is not super cool. It’s as if I have not-cool amnesia. I’d give examples, but I can’t think of any!
• 6) WET PAPER!!!!!! AHHHHHHHH KILL IT. I’M GAGGING RIGHT NOW! Straw paper, napkins, you name it. I just had to pause and put my head down! How this started for me: When I was little, my mom would never let me wear a two piece swimsuit because she said they were “slutty.” So … picture me, four years old, hopping out of the pool with a sense of panic after having waited til the absolute last minute to pee, and running to the bathroom, peeling off my entire swim suit, and finally peeing in the appropriate place. (No one taught me the easy way to do this until much later.) Then, I would reach for the toilet paper and because I hadn’t dried off from the pool, my little chubby wet hands would get that wet single ply toilet paper stuck ALL OVER THEM. HOW DISGUSTING. OH GOSH.
• 7) I LOVE washing/waxing/detailing my car. I’m pretty great at it, too. It’s one of the few things I get to do that really helps me unwind.
• I think putting the new trash bag in the trash can is a THOUSAND times more disgusting than taking the old one out. It makes me gag just thinking about it.
• 9) I have perfect pitch in E-flat, which is basically worth nothing.
• 10) I don’t like odd numbers. Except for 5.

Okay, well that’s me in a nutshell.

PS … Nikki, I have known about your obsession with MMA for awhile now, but the thought of you slapping the ring and yelling and dealing with excessively sweaty people is slightly hilarious but really more frightening than anything else.

Jenn,
“I’ll bet you didn’t know” that we were separated at birth … but our mutual affection for Lip Balm, The Amazing Race (LOVE Phil and his little eyebrow pop), and run-on sentences makes it very clear.

Allie,
American Idol? … Really? I CAN NOT STAND the auditions … no seriously. I have to cover my head with a pillow if I want to have any chance to get through them. Thinking about it right now makes both my eardrums and my eyedrums bleed. That’s right: American Idol gives me hysterical blindness … Can. Not. Deal. With. It!!!!

Kel,
Do we even have any secrets from each other? … I don’t think so. I already knew about your INSANE 24 thing … you know about my ridiculous “jeans justification” (and the fact that I have NOTHING to fill them with … thank goodness for the flap pocket) … I love you “Don.”

Allison,
Welcome to our little party. Please feel free to spread your high self esteem and OBDD all over the place! Love. It.

Nikki,
OK … here’s the deal. Your UFC-mania isn’t new to me. I SAW YOU IN THE SHIRT! At first I was a little surprised, but later, when I heard you were waiting to commit to our girls’ weekend until after you found out if your favorite fighter had made it to the championship round in Vegas, I knew … it’s not just a hobby with you. I’ve already scheduled your Intervention.

Oh fine! … about me:
I love fantasy football (and I rock at it). Ray LaMontagne makes me cry. I have always had a weird auto response crushy-deal with left handed men … I don’t know. I hate horror films … but I like sci-fi TV. Speaking of TV: Prison Break? … every Monday, no matter what. Desperate Housewives? … hate. Those people who sniff incessantly? … I believe that they do it INTENTIONALLY to irritate me. I love bubble gum (and still get it in my stocking every Christmas). “I don’t think I’ve ever wanted as much to be ‘free’ as I’ve longed to be ‘known.’” I’m afraid of spiders. I love when it gets cold enough to see your breath. I eat hominy but I don’t eat carrots. I’m a homebody … where you’ll find me in tank tops and “comfies” (yoga pants). I don’t really care for ice-cream (except, of course, for Ben and Jerry’s Oatmeal Cookie Chunk, which WILL change your life). I cannot apply eyeshadow. I love to laugh but I wish I had a girly giggle.

I’ll bet you didn’t know …

I’m feeling glad I went first, and disclosed the least, because I’m starting to think we are a big bunch of freaks. Which most likely reflects poorly on Nikki, since we all have her in common. There are additional disturbing facts about myself, but I think we’ve scared the readers enough.

Well, girls, I don’t know that I need to add to the freakiness, but … here goes … I guess this is the perfect opportunity to re-introduce myself. I’m Val. Remember me? The all around slacker and inconsistent blogger. Other than that … I have a touch of OCD, although I am not that neat, just particular about where the clutter is. I will not touch raw meat in any form. I love to do laundry, read an insane number of magazines, and cry watching sapping Hallmark movies (and the commercials that accompany them). I watch WAY too much TV, but don’t try to deny it. My favs are The Office, Grey’s Anatomy, and Gilmore Girls (although this season is particularly disappointing). Anderson Cooper is my hero. I read anything by Lauren Winner. I’m one of those annoying people who must read every sign in a museum or historical marker at tourist attractions. Every personality test I’ve ever taken says I manipulate people through relationships. (I’m sorry if I’ve done this to any of you. Apparently, I am unaware of it when I do it.) I am a sucker for clever packaging and will pay a ridiculous amount of money for cute notecards, coffee drinks, and concert tickets. That’s me!

You guys are amazing … I am truly blessed to count each of you as a friend (wait … I think a tear is forming in my eye …). Thanks for indulging me and responding to this question.

And now, I think it is probably safe to say that I bet we didn’t know how much of a freak we all are … So thanks for posting, my freakish sisters, and letting everyone see a little bit of something I’m sure they didn’t know …

p.s. Nicole and KJ … you may act like you don’t like the UFC, but we all know that you are hiding a hidden love of the sport … you’re not fooling me.

p.p.s. … Do you guys think I use the ellipses too much? …

you all KNOW that I love a good “three dot” … I’ve joined “ellipses annoymous”… Nikki, you can come with me to a meeting … if you want … the meetings tend to last a very … long … time … y’know … because of all the pausing …

Well girls … it’s the holidays … and let me just say that I LOVE the holidays. I love Christmas music in the mall. I love how white Christmas lights sparkle on a snow covered bush. I LOVE shopping and gift giving and an excuse to eat lots of chocolate. When I was in college, I LOVED going home for Christmas. Sitting in the kitchen with Mom while she cooked, reading by the fire my dad built, sleeping in my own bed. To me, there’s no place like home … but for many of my friends in college, going home for the holidays was tolerable at best and a nightmare for some.

I never really understood this until I got married and began spending holidays with the in-laws. Now don’t get me wrong, my husband has a wonderful family, but going home with him for the holidays is very stressful for me. There is felt, but unspoken, tension in certain relationships. There is pressure to eat food I don’t like and get up earlier than I want. There are awkward silences and expectations to participate in activities that are about as fun as sitting through a work meeting on company policy.

Lest you’re confused, my question has nothing to do with dealing with in-laws (though on a side note I’d take any advice from you more seasoned married folk), but everything to do with that fact that for many people, going home for the holidays brings many challenges. So how does a college woman who lives primarily accountable to only herself for most of the year, respectfully and even enjoyably return home for Christmas. How does one adjust from the freedom of college life to the rules of home? Any thoughts?

Great topic, Kelly! Makes me thirsty for egg nog! And reminds me of my first visit to Nick’s house when we were dating. I choked down oyster stew, his family’s traditional holiday meal, all in the name of impressing the boyfriend. Blech!! But anyways, back to your topic … I think a few small efforts can go a long way in making the holidays merry:

1) Set your travel plans before you go home. If you don’t want your plans open for manipulation … err, discussion, then don’t ask for input. For instance, send an email saying something like “I’m really looking forward to spending time with you. I’ll be coming home on Wednesday, and heading back to school on Saturday. It will be so nice to be home.” And then enjoy the days you are there!

2) Schedule in some “fresh air” time while you’re there. Get out of the house — go for a walk — offer to run an errand. Or even bring some “work” to do and head to the nearest Starbucks for an hour. No matter how wonderful your family is, lots of concentrated time together is often a recipe for going nutty!

3) If there are controversial topics, like who you’re dating, what your grades are, post-college plans, etc. and you know they will come up at some point during your stay, take the initiative. At a time when you feel comfortable, tell them whatever you want to share, and then promptly offer to pop in “National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation” or another favorite distraction.

I’ll definitely be checking back to see what the rest of you have to say. Merry Christmas everyone!

Well, no surprises here! A great question from Kelly and some very awesome, practical advice from Allie already posted on the discussion here — way to go ladies!! I might add one little thing to Allie’s advice … one that may sound “over-spiritual” to the scenario, but one I do believe is important: pray for grace on your family members. As we get older, we begin to see our family members for who they really are in life – imperfect human beings (as we all are). With that, sometimes, comes disappointment and frustration. Even if we have known this about our parents (and other family members) for some time, there is still that bit of “irritation” that can happen when they say certain things or behave in a certain manner. For the Christian, loving them as Christ would love them is the goal.

Last year, my pastor spoke on the concept of “honoring” our parents when we are adults. In Scripture, children are told to “obey” their parents, but as we become adults, we see this change to the idea of “honoring” them. I like to think of this as being able to love them – imperfections and all – by choosing to not engage in unnecessary quarrels, or looking upon them with disgust when they do something we don’t like, or whatever. If we can find a way to love them and understand where they are coming from (no matter how much we may not agree with them), then I think we are showing God’s grace, and I can’t help but think of how pleased God is when we do this. I don’t believe that there are quick/easy answers for handling annoying family members during the holidays – for some, the holidays truly are stressful. If we can see it more as a time to serve and honor those around us by loving them in spite of their crazy habits, maybe … just maybe, we’ll enjoy the holidays that much more as well.

p.s. One last thing: try to find humor in the nuances of your family members. Proverbs 31’s description of a Godly woman and that “she can laugh at the days to come” must have included the ability to find humor in pesky family members!!

You read my thoughts Nikki. I thought “over-spiritual answers” were reserved for me? Honoring our parents … exactly. Not always easy, but one of those beautiful opportunities to strip off selfishness, the right to be right, independence (which can often mean just wanting to think of ourselves only), etc. All the ugly sin stuff that God longs to replace with holiness.

True, you haven’t had to answer to your parents for a while now, but going home and showing them respect and submission will speak volumes to them about your spiritual state. The holidays are also a chance for many of us to share Christ with unbelieving family members. We need to remember that everything we do and say speaks to who Christ really is when we profess to believe in Him. Our burden for their salvation should outweigh anything we want for ourselves. My only bit of practical advice is to be “prayed-up.” That’s what I call it. Praying over the details, and mostly my attitude, helps me so much. When I walk in unprepared, I respond out of my flesh, and that is SO UGLY! (Y’all are getting to see the real sinful me underneath, isn’t this fun?) We tend to be out of our routine when we’re home for a holiday and consequently out of the habit of Bible study and prayer, so make a point to schedule it in. Even when I go in “prayed-up,” I will run out of gas without some time with the Lord, and ugly Jenn will emerge shortly.

I hope you guys get to celebrate Jesus is a magnificent way this year with your families! Merry Christmas!

I think we’re all likely to agree that charity and helping others are good things. My issue is this: how would you say a college student can really make a difference in the world around her? For the most part, our resources and time are fairly limited. Can you think of ways to make our world better when you’re not able to cut a big check or spend a year in the Peace Corps? And how do we know what really makes a difference rather than just makes us feel like “good people?”

Through college, I was often subject to guilt because I couldn’t seem to find the time or resources to be involved in service organizations. I was even a member of a service group (it looks good on a resume), and I loathed trying to find time to be involved in their group activities. And then a realization hit me my senior year: Why am I just trying to tag along with others instead of paving the way to do something I am passionate about?

Let’s face it: We’re all designed differently. Some people really get a kick out of breaking a sweat and swinging a hammer for Habitat for Humanity. I had some really athletic friends that would run in every charity run offered in our city. Others, like me, prefer to serve through less physical means. I found that I really enjoyed volunteering my time with the Humane Society, playing with and caring for stray animals. I also enjoyed mentoring kids through Big Brothers and Big Sisters. And I think that regardless of your passions, everything you do can be done for the glory of God. So, before we jump in and commit ourselves to serving with any and every organization out there, I think we need to really think about what gets us excited. Otherwise, whatever we do to serve will seem like a waste of time to us, and it’ll be pretty hard to avoid the guilty feelings later.

I think I have more to say on the subject, but I’d really like to hear thoughts from the rest of you…

I agree with Lindsay. Being passionate about where you can serve will make the difference and determine your longevity in serving/helping to make a difference. Recently, I feel like a topic has been surfacing amongst college students that we are probably all easily passionate about: human slave-trafficking. A friend of mine co-founded a ministry that targets this by training college students to recognize where underground operations may be lurking. You can read more about what we can do and what signs to look for at their website: www.notforsalecampaign.org. One of the things that I like about this organization is that it is not necessarily so time consuming as it is about being wise/aware of what is around you. For example, one of the ways that students are trained to recognize human slave-trafficking rings is by being observant of workers at certain businesses around college campuses that they may frequent, etc. Since a lot of the victims of these crimes fall within the collegiate age-range and are brought into the country to work at restaurants, dry-cleaners, etc., the crime rings tend to have their “hubs” in college towns. This is just my first thought upon reading your question, Sally. Thanks for raising this topic.

Good question, Sally. “How can a college student really make a difference in the world around her?” I really like Lindsay and Nikki’s suggestions for places to jump in. I think the point I would like to make, though, is that usually the first step in serving and caring for people further away from us (either because they are literally across the world, or because we have to go through a service organization to reach them), is to serve and care for the people that are already in our lives. I have often found that it is easy for me to serve or give to ministries out of pride or self-righteousness (look at the difference I’M making!), without giving a second thought to how I treat my mom, my roommates, the woman that rings me up at Bread Co., or my boss. (I would even argue that this is the REAL “world around us.”) Giving time/money/energy to different ministries and service projects I think is absolutely central to God’s plan of bringing ultimate restoration to our world, through Jesus. Praise God that we can be a part of that! But first I think we really need to examine our hearts, examine our motives, soak in the message of the Gospel and pray that God would show us what it means to truly love and serve. We will never do this perfectly well (and God doesn’t require that we do it perfectly before we start serving!), but I think it is an important stop on the way to serving and giving. And sometimes the best gauge of how well we are doing at living in the message of the Gospel is to look at how we treat those around us.

One of my favorite ministries is World Vision (www.worldvision.com), a Christian relief organization committed to serving children in poverty and disease-ridden countries. I sponsor a 5 year old Ugandan girl named Anita by giving a small amount of money each month. What I really like about World Vision is that (1) they are responsible and transparent with how they spend my money, (2) they focus on the physical and spiritual needs of the children being supported, and (3) I can participate not only by giving money, but also by writing Anita a note or birthday card (she has my birthday!) and praying for her (her picture is on my refrigerator!). I know college students aren’t exactly rolling in dough, and even the $35/month might seem expensive. If this is true for you, you might want to try joining forces with other girls in your small group, your roommates or even your family and sponsor a child together.

Erica raises a great point which I confess that I wasn’t thinking about when I first read the question raised here — focus on what is around you (those you are coming in contact with, etc.). That made me think (and some of you may be surprised to hear me say this) that another way that we can “change the world” is just being careful in how we “treat” our world. We have discussed this before (on the CL blog) and the idea of “going green,” etc., so I won’t reiterate those discussions here. But I do think that we can all make a difference in taking care of our world in just the little things we do each day — recycling, refusing to waste, etc. By doing these seemingly small things I believe that we do help to “change” our current world.

Great thoughts, ladies! We seem to be developing a theme of “work with what you’ve been given.” I like, too, that we’re covering ways to figure out where you want to serve. What are some practical ways of doing that? How do we go green/treat the BreadCo cashier/affect the world around us?

Not to over-simplify, but I don’t think the practical part is rocket science. Act. Don’t just talk about it, tout it, or constantly reminesce about that time back in high school when you actually did it. Do it. Serve. Get some skin in the game.

Sure, look for something you’re passionate about, but also remember it’s not about you. Jesus is pretty clear throughout His teachings that we should be taking care of the poor, the needy, the less-fortunate. Sometimes making the world better might actually require you to sacrifice a little. A little time. A little convience. A little preference. Serving definitely doesn’t have to be dreadful, but it isn’t always warm and fuzzy.

On a more philosophical note, something that often bothers me about “Christians” (myself included) is that it’s they’re often known far better at supporting what they’re “against” than what they’re “for”. So when it comes to making the world a better place, put down your picket sign and get your hands dirty.

Signing off my soap box,

Kel, I quite enjoyed your soap box.

Ok, so here’s a practical suggestion…timed perfectly for the end of the semester. A few years back I helped organize an event for my church. I think it translates BEAUTIFULLY into a college environment. Our event (we called it a Spring Swap) was for women only, but it really wouldn’t have to be. For a month proceeding the Swap we had anyone who was interested drop off their unwanted clothes, shoes, accessories, books, cds, dvds, and housewares. I think maybe there were 6 people on the actual planning team and then maybe we had a dozen or so volunteers for the night before the Swap. The night before we set up our “store”…clothes separated by sizes, shoes and accessories in their own area, books/cds/dvds in a “bookstore” section. The day of the Swap (which we had been advertising in our church bulletin for a month…students would probably do well do place an ad in the school paper or hang signs around campus) we charged a $5 admittance fee. Everyone was welcome to take whatever they found that they wanted. We had been saving shopping bags for weeks and handed them out when people came in, but it would have been just as easy to ask people to bring their own bags (uh…or pillow cases for that matter). Some people were leaving with BAGS full of “new” items, some only found one CD or whatever. At the end of the day we donated all of the proceeds (over $500 if memory serves) to the charity that we had selected. In addition, and probably the COOLEST part of the whole Swap for me, we took EVERYTHING that was left to a local women’s shelter. You should have seen looks on the ladies faces when they saw us rolling up with clothes and books and hats and flower arrangements. All, unwanted to us, but TREASURES to them. The benefits to the Spring Swap were multi-faceted. The people cleaning out their closets and homes (or dorm rooms) had a good reason to evaluate all their “stuff” and get rid of unnecessary items. The people attending the Swap got to search through literally thousands of items and take whatever they wanted for the low-low price of $5 flat. The charity that the Swap Team selected received a nice sized donation. The women’s shelter received bags and bags and BAGS of items, new to them.

So, this wasn’t an inspirational entry…(as previously discussed, Kelly already took care of the “call to action”)… I do think, though, that sometimes we think giving (whether of our time or our talents) has to be BIG to have value…its simply not true.

Yes, Nicole, that clothing swap was fun and effective in ministering. Great idea! Our local radio station here does a pay-for-the-car-behind-you day once a month. So you drive through and pay for yourself and the car behind you, leaving a note with the cashier to give to that car, saying something like “Your order is paid for. Have a great day!” Some people can’t fathom a stranger doing that, so it really rocks their world.

Little “green” ideas to add to the list are: filling up your own travel mug with coffee instead of getting the disposable ones, biking instead of driving, using your own shopping bags, picking up litter when you see it. Start with ONE thing until it’s a habit. I also don’t want to forget about the little things we can do for our “neighbors” — whoever that is to you… coworkers, roommates, managers, bosses, etc. Things like writing a little note to say thank you, or a note of encouragement, or showing up to their event, or cheering them on. Or pick someone younger than you and do something to speak truth and vision into their life — I think these things make a huge difference in one tiny person on this earth. That’s a big deal to me!! And I think it’s worth reminding ourselves not to do acts of kindness to stroke our own ego or to check off a list. But out of gracious living and understanding the Gospel — that we are more loved than we can imagine… so pass it on!

Wow, you guys are giving me some great ideas of what I can do! Love it! I was thinking about some additional small and everyday ways we can encourage and help each other. My husband and I try to be intentional about inviting people into our home for a meal once a week–especially single students who don’t often get a home cooked meal. I know that many of our readers are single college gals themselves, but how cool would it be for a group of girls to sacrifice time during a busy point in their semester to make a meal for everyone in their dorm hall, or maybe even just cookies or brownies. These small acts can build community and encourage us to remember that we’re not alone. I think that in many ways this hard economic time we’re facing today is an incredible opportunity for us to serve one another and make a tremendous difference in the world around us. The possibilities are endless and as close as the person who lives next door.

Statistics say 10 million females between the ages of 15 and 24 struggles with anorexia, and only 1/3 of those young women actually receive professional help. With numbers like that, we are bound to know someone in our social circle suffering from an eating disorder, and perhaps suffering alone. So the question is: what do we do when we know someone is struggling with not eating (or eating too much)? What do we say to our friends who may not be starving themselves, but are just obsessed with their body image? How can we help our sisters and ourselves? What does Scripture say to help us honestly face this issue?

Hope this topic isn’t too weighty for us to discuss, ladies. Oops! Sorry for the pun!

I like the pun.

I am so glad this topic is being addressed because as I sit here this morning reading what you wrote, Lindsay, I have realized that I have had (on average) a student about once a month approach me about this very topic. I think that there are a lot of young women out there who know that their “obsession” with their body/appearance is not how it should be, but don’t know where to go for help. To be completely honest, when students have approached me about this topic, I usually point them to Allie who has walked through this topic and has gotten incredible freedom from it. Her story is powerful and I have seen many students receive the encouragement and wisdom from Allie that has helped them change their lives. I know that she will have some good words for us on this topic.

The one thought that keeps ringing in my mind when I think of this topic is that we were never created to be so concerned with our outward appearance. Peter talks of this (in I Peter 3:3-5) and I think that there is something to how we were “intended to work” when God created us. The obsession with our appearance leads us where? What is the end goal of such focused thoughts/efforts? Is there anything good at the end of that? If we trust that God knows how we “work best,” then there must be something to developing a life that is not focused on our outward appearance but more on our inner character and how He created us to work. As for good instructions on how to do this practically, however, I’m sure others will want to weigh in…

Lindsey, this is a great topic and also a very hard one to discuss! It seems like such a common problem would have a concrete solution, but it obviously doesn’t or it wouldn’t be so rampant. Because the underlying causes are so vast and the variety (and severity) of the “acting out” of eating disorders is so wide, it’s hard to cover all the bases in one post. That said, take this for what it’s worth (with no claim that it’s comprehensive advice).

I too struggled greatly with this issue in college. I was a chubby kid and a fat teenager. Before my senior year of highschool a well-meaning friend told me I’d be a better athlete (and sports were my life) if I weren’t so overweight. That triggered an extreme response in me that lead to several years of believing that my worth was wrapped up in my weight. In college, I would walk across campus comparing myself to every girl I passed. The thinner ones made me swear to eat less and exercise more. The opposite made me feel “okay” about myself for a brief moment until the next skinny girl walked by. I was a mess.

I won’t bore you with my life story, but here are a couple practical things that helped me overcome:

• Confess. When you start confessing your sin regularly AND specifically, it makes you want to stop sinning.
• Memorize. Memorize some verses that speak of your value to God or of His specific design in creating YOU! Say them as a mantra. Say them when you’re tempted to compare. Say them when you’re heading back to the gym for the third time in a day. Say them when you’re sitting at a meal that you’re pretending to eat. This will help get your mind off of yourself and onto God!
• Ask for help. Sometimes we struggle with something tangible because of very intangible emotions. Seek the counsel of a good friend or (even better) a professional to help you address the deeper issues.
• Be realistic. Unfortunately very few of us look like supermodels. I will never be a size 2…that wouldn’t be healthy for my body type. Accept the way God created you…take the good with the bad!
• Serve. When your focus is primarily on you, you will obsess about your imperfections.

You know how you’re struggling with self-image as a woman??? Because you’re a woman. MOST of us do. You’re not alone, so stop believing the lie that nobody else understands or struggles like you. When you keep yourself isolated and alone it’s so much easier to continue in a destructive behavior. Seek help and healing…I can say from the other side of this struggle that it’s very freeing!

I have heard several times, “But Allie, I’m not a ‘textbook case’ of an eating disorder. I just watch what I eat.” In the ten years since God healed me from eating disorders (which I had claimed were “non-textbook”), this vague self-description has received its own term: EDNOS, or Eating Disorders Not Otherwise Specified. I am very happy about that, because I think it describes the majority of women struggling, but feeling like they’re not sick enough or not addicted enough to get help. Somehow putting a name to our quirky, obsessive, addictive behaviors helps us admit that we need help. There is definitely help out there for those dealing with EDNOS. One resource to check out is www.findingbalance.com which talks extensively (and relevantly) about anorexia, bulimia, EDNOS, and orthorexia (obsession with organic/clean foods).

To answer Lindsay’s question about what to do about it, I think our last discussion on Admonishing comes into play when the friend struggling is a Christian. However, from experience I encourage you to admonish your friend in the most gentle manner. Like KJ described, a well-meaning comment can cause an extreme response. Showing humility when you discuss this with your friend goes a long way. For example, saying “Jill, I might be way off base here. And this is really hard to say… I don’t want you to be offended or respond in the other direction. I just care about you a lot and I’ve been concerned lately….” Or better yet, if you have tendencies toward restrictive eating or other behavioral addictions yourself, confess that first. Then she will know that you aren’t accusing or judging, but wanting to walk towards freedom together.

I still struggle with helping women find freedom, and yet not getting caught up with self-focus. I heard a sermon once called “Blessed Self-Forgetfulness” which encouraged women to simply stop thinking about themselves so much. That is good practical advice for many of us teetering with obsessive thoughts, unless you are under a strong addiction — which is much harder to just “decide” to not think about it.

I’m curious to see where this conversation takes us. I might chime in more later…

Ugh. I am so sick of this topic. Not because it isn’t important (it is!) and not because it isn’t prevalent (it’s everywhere!). I’m sick of it because body image issues are so pervasive and destructive that sometimes it feels like we just can’t do much about it.

Unfortunately, I have experienced many of these body image/weight issues first-hand. It sucks. Constantly running through my mind were lies like: “You’re not worth anything unless you’re skinny.” “He won’t love you if you’re fat.” “You don’t deserve good things unless you’re a size 2.” Ultimately, for me, I think these thoughts and the resulting behaviors (excessive exercise, erratic dieting, obsessing over food) were tied up in where I found my self-worth. Even though I professed that my identity was in being a delighted-in child of God, for all practical purposes I acted as if my identity was found in my image, my body, and my ability to control it. I was believing lies. And how subtle and ubiquitous those lies can be!

I think KJ’s first recommendation may be the most important: Confess and repent. We have body-image issues because we believe what the world tells us instead of believing in the Truth of the Gospel. Our insecurity is really a form of pride and self-righteousness. “I am so important that my dissatisfaction with my body should be the object of my every thought.” We need to confess our sin and turn to God for help in repentance. I also really love the “blessed self-forgetfulness” that Allie talked about. I would encourage you to start by thinking LESS about yourself, and thinking MORE about the person of Jesus, and through His eyes we can begin to really see and feel the suffering of others. And it is from here that we develop the humble confidence that we all find so attractive!

I think the consensus among us is that a big part of this struggle has to do with the concentration of our focus on ourselves. I think realizing and understanding that fact can offer a lot of freedom of girls wrestling this issue. After all, we can most clearly see ourselves when we are in the midst of serving others. One Scripture passage that has most encouraged me in this issue comes from 1 Peter 3:

“Do not let your adorning be external–the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear–but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves.”

I think that all women have a true and real hunger to possess this imperishable beauty, and it can only be found in cultivating our relationship with the Lord and giving ourselves to serving Him. Do any of you have a specific verse or passage that can encourage girls who can’t seem to adjust the focus of their hearts?

I don’t have one right on point, but I do have one that gives me a lot of hope when I’m struggling with something that I’m just way too weak to deal with by myself. It’s from Hosea, and in this passage, God is using Hosea’s relationship with his brazenly cheating wife to show how badly Isreal is messing things up and hurting God by chasing after idols. It’s Hosea Chapter 2: (Pardon the translation – I’m stuck with what I can pull off of the internet in an internet cafe!) “For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, so that they will be mentioned by name no more…I will betroth you to me forever…and you will know the Lord.” It’s a long passage, but the point that I always need to come back to is that, when our sin has gotten us into a mess much bigger than we can handle or fix (which is always when we really are honest with ourselves), God meets us in that mess we’ve created and rescues us from it. It’s not always easy – I can’t say that I’ve ever seen someone recover from eating disorders or body image issues overnight – but I love relying on the “I love you. I’ll draw you out of this” sentiments that God expresses in this passage.

I realize, though, that this passage has something poetic about it that particularly speaks to my heart, so there are probably eight thousand more relevant passages! If that passage isn’t your particular cup of tea, reader, maybe I’d recommend just finding a passage that really drives the point of God’s love and power to save you, even from yourself, home to your heart. Isaiah, all through the 50s and 60s chapters, would be another recommendation or google “freedom for the captives” for another really great one.

I had planned to add some more thoughts on this topic, but now reading what each of you have written – I’m thinking that I don’t have much else to say! Great input! As far as scripture passages to refer to during those moments of struggle, I think that finding a passage that connects with/ministers to you is the key. I like the reminder of Psalm 51:4 that our sin is against God (”Against you, you only, have I sinned…”). That helps to keep in proper perspective what the issue is: making our bodies/appearance our “idol” and how that divides us from God in our relationship with Him. And then I like remembering how He loves us and restores us and WILL help us through those struggles. (Psalm 54:4, for instance, says “Behold, God is my helper; the Lord is the upholder of my life.”)

One passage that God has been speaking to me through recently has so held my attention that I copied it in my organizer (yes – I am one of the few on the planet who still have an old-school, paper organizer). It is found in Psalm 84:5-7. “Blessed are those whose strength is in you, in whose heart are the highways to Zion. As they go through the Valley of Baca they make it a place of springs; the early rain also covers it with pools. They go from strength to strength…” There are several reasons that this passage ministers to me (like Sally, I think certain passages grab our hearts), but I think I love the idea that our strength comes from GOD and not ourselves. In dealing with any struggle in life, we must return to the source of what or Who will help us overcome it (much like KJ suggested by starting with “confess”). As we all already agreed on, body image issues are very selfish – very self-focused. To overcome them, then, we must get the focus off of ourselves and back on what matters most…our relationship with God..the true source of strength.

I think this is a great consensus regarding the self-focus aspect of eating disorders. I also wanted to encourage any readers out there who feel like they are too addicted or out of control to simply “decide” not to focus on it anymore. I think that is actually a pretty good test to see whether this eating/exercise habit is indeed a problem.

If you are not able to make a healthy choice when tempted with a bad one (like skipping a meal, or avoiding a social eating situation, or manipulating food somehow)… if you feel like you are somewhat out-of-body and watching yourself make these bad choices over and over, that might mean you need outside help to conquer this. I encourage you to seek a trusted friend and a counselor (two separate people) and begin the process of asking for help. It takes a lot of surrender and a lot of work. But you will feel so wonderful when you’ve gotten back to the point where you can make that good choice in the moment, with God’s help, and feel that freedom again.

You are not alone, and there is full freedom through Christ. Run after it with all of your heart!!

You consider lily girls are GOOD! I am so impressed with what how you all have articulated your thoughts on this very important topic. I have been “haunting” this post since you started it Lindsay, but I haven’t had much to say. I know that seems like a bit of cop out, but its true. I have not dealt with this particular issue and each of you have shared such wisdom and insight that I haven’t felt the need to interject. I just wanted you all to know that I was here… appreciating your honesty… admiring your grace… You are blessing our sweet readers right now, by talking about this critical issue…

I am anxious, since I’m writing only moments before this post goes live, that my words will be the last on this topic…which seems like such a travesty considering the great suggestions and encouragement shared earlier by my CL “pals.” Every one of us has struggled with fear, shame, disappointment, worry, or guilt about something. Readers, if you are doing something WITH or TO your body that you are ashamed for anyone in your life to know about, please be sure of this: THERE IS GRACE for you. Nothing you have done can erase God’s love for you. No amount of self-destruction is too great for healing and recovery. In the Old Testament book of Zephaniah (that’s one of the very last, little ones at the end) in Chapter 3, verse 17 it says:

The Lord your God is with you,
A victorious warrior, He is mighty enough to save you.
He will take great delight in you.
The quietness of His love will calm you.
He will sing with joy because of you.

I’m pretty sure that God put this verse in the Bible specifically for me, because He knew that I would need it for when I was feeling lonely, weak, unlovely, anxious, and sad. This is absolutely MY VERSE…but you can borrow it if you want.

Those are great thoughts to end on Nicole, so I will only add a few resources recommended by a friend who battled through and is experiencing victory over an eating disorder:
– Lord, I want to Be Whole by Stormie Omartian
– A Dad-Shaped Hole In My Heart by H Norman Wright
– Tell Them I Love Them by Joyce Meyer
– Healing Is A Choice by Steven Arterburn

I have not read any of these, but they come from a trusted source.

Nikki, I think about this topic so much! I confess that I have been a FB addict for SEVEN YEARS now! Unbelievable. I have 383 “friends” and hundreds of pictures tagged on my profile. And it wasn’t until recently that I began to realize that my friends who have “fasted” from FB are looking for far more than just a little extra time in their day. The truth of the matter is FB does not satisfy our need to KNOW and be KNOWN. Sure, I have 383 friends, but how many of those people do I really know? In fact, I often use FB to escape from truly being known. Nobody who looks up my profile, views my pictures, and reads what my favorite books are, really has to sit down with me and look into my eyes to have a conversation. And I think our generation is missing out on relationships like that. The hard part of it is that even when people fast from FB, there are still too many options out there that allow people to escape from real community. Everyone I have known to fast from FB has returned to it feeling just as busy and just as empty as they did before.

Does that mean I’m giving up my seven-year run of Facebook glory? Probably not. But what I try to do is devote an hour to experiencing real community for every hour I spend avoiding it. Whoa. Maybe that was a little too honest.

Lindsay, I agree with you – Facebook can really easily be a way to have easy interactions with people. I hardly think I can be fair on this one, though – I’m living abroad at the moment, so my only ways of communicating with the people I care about back home are all online! Maybe I’ll defer on this one to people who aren’t living in a constant language barrier (seriously…I’m starving for the English language over here, and facebook gives me the fix I need! Parle anything but Italiano?)!

I don’t Facebook (I have a feeling half of our readers are now picturing me in a long prairie skirt, writing all my posts on parchment paper with a quill pen and sending them in via pony express).

Nicole – LOL! But you are a pro-texter – so you’re in on this conversation for sure! Okay – just wanted to add here that today I got another invitation to “Twitter” — here is what that invitation says:

About Twitter

Twitter is a unique approach to communication and networking based on the simple concept of status. What are you doing? What are your friends doing–right now? With Twitter, you may answer this question over SMS or the Web and the responses are shared between contacts.

When I get invitations like this – I am wondering about the wisdom of spending time letting everyone know what I am doing each moment of my day. DOES this create community (like Sally eluded to)? Does it give us a false sense of community (like Lindsay suggests)? Is this a wise use of time or is it unwise? Or somewhere in between?

I perhaps will also be pictured in a long praire skirt, because I definitely don’t get this whole “Twitter” craze. Are we really so important that our “status” should be updated multiple times a day? Are we really so nosey that we want to follow the “status” of hundreds of “friends.”

I do like Facebook…I see the danger of “pseudo” community, but I also see the benefits of quickly and easily staying in touch with old high school friends or out of town relatives that I wouldn’t otherwise be in contact with. (Plus, I LOVE the birthday reminders…saves me ALL the time!)

Good for you if you “fasted” from Facebook (or Twitter or whatever else sucks your time) if you replaced that activity with some time focused on God. The point of giving up something for Lent (although it’s not required of us Biblically) is to sacrifice something small as a reminder of the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus made for us. And just like with anything, we should always be evaluating if our habits in a particular area are healthy.

So, I guess I’d say check your motives on this whole Facebook, Twitter, texting thing. Are you avoiding being known? Are you hiding behind “pseudo” relationship? Are you being a busy body (obsessively checking whether “that guy’s” relationship status has changed yet)? Are you so obsessed with yourself that you think everyone wants to know what you’re doing all day long? Are you too “busy” to study or read or pray or serve or rest, but have hours to spend “status surfing?” If so, you might need to re-evaluate.

I’ve been wondering when we’d do this topic! We are an internet-based blog, afterall…

I think that the thoughts so far have been great. Underlying your question, Nikki, is the question of what “fasting” means and what it is for. KJ, your point about reminding us of Jesus, who provided the ultimate sacrifice, is key. I’m reminded of the verses in Matthew (9:14-15) where people came to Jesus asking “Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” and Jesus answered, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.” This tells me that fasting should not only remind us of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, on our behalf, but it should remind us that we are empty without Christ. That all the small things I fill my hours, days, life with (Facebook, email, and so much more) are only distracting me and giving me a false sense of fulfillment. We should fast from things that are getting between us and true worship of God, the One for whom our heart was created.

Back to Facebook/Twitter/texting…I think these networking “tools,” like so many other things, can either be good and useful, or they can be idols, depending on how and why we use them. I have fasted from Facebook before. It wasn’t necessarily a big “time-consumer” for me, but I did find myself browsing at others’ pictures and being filled with envy and discontentment (instead of being happy for my umpteenth high school “friend” to get married in a gorgeous designer wedding gown…). These thoughts were keeping me from thankfulness for, and security in, God’s provision for me. The fast was helpful, and it really hasn’t ended. I still examine my motives before I click on the “Me and My George-Clooney-Look-Alike Husband at the Beach” album.

Also, I would love for us to replace Facebook/Twitter time with face-to-face time with real friends. Perhaps we can add up all the random minutes and hours (and afternoons…) of electronic communication and replace it with coffee with a friend.

Really good points, ladies – all of them! So here is another thought… I was talking with one of our church leaders the other day and he was telling me about a friend of his in Texas who refuses to have FB (or any of these internet “community” deals) because he wants “real” community with people. Apparently, this guy said that he would rather have “real” community with a few people (who he interacts with in person each week) than “false” community with several hundred people (or more?) over the internet. Do you agree or disagree with his position?

Nicole – I’m not letting you off so easy on this topic. Why do you prefer texting to talking (I think I’ve heard you explain this before, but for the benefit of our readers)? Do the advantages out-weigh the lack of in-person communication?

Nikki, if the Texas guy feels like having Facebook would interfere with his having real community, then I think he’s right to keep away from it. I don’t think, though, that Facebook or Twitter or any other social networking forum is across-the-board bad for community. Instead, I think that it’s a personal judgment that you have to make – just like Erica and KJ mentioned. First of all, I’ve seen Facebook used pretty effectively as a tool for getting people together. My college friends and now law school friends use Facebook groups and events all the time as a quick and easy way to invite people to parties, dinner, movie showings, etc. In those cases, the events themselves are opportunities for real social interaction.

On top of that, I think that focusing too much on “I have a few close friends” can be really dangerous. Yes, we should nurture and protect our close relationships, but having acquaintances is NOT a bad thing! Facebook and Twitter (actually, I know nothing about Twitter) are an easy way to break the ice with someone that you don’t know well. Speaking as someone who has been the new kid a LOT, it’s a lot more comfortable to meet people and start hanging out with new groups when someone “friends” you on Facebook and starts dropping you “hey, we’re all grabbing dinner. Want to join?” messages. If the people who did that were trying to just cultivate a few close friendships, they’d never be able to reach out to people like that. Honestly, I feel pretty strongly about the fact that these mediums, though admittedly time-suckers and huge envy pits (Erica, I feel you on the wedding dresses thing – I have to avoid Facebook when I’m in brood/self-pity mode), can really be useful in reaching out to the people God puts around us (I’ve definitely been grateful for those “hey, want to come with?” messages!). Like it or not, Facebook is a part of my generation’s culture, and I think that condemning it outright rather than keeping it within wise boundaries (which I grant, for some like Nikki’s Texan friend, can be just staying away from it totally) can be limiting a potentially great tool for ministry!

So apparently I was lying when I said I’d defer to someone who could be more neutral! Oops

Sally, I love your point about how these social networking sites are great places to find out about events going on that encourage real community. If I didn’t have Facebook to keep me up-to-date on the coming weekend’s events, I’d probably just stay home because it’s my natural tendency to do so. I think that the social networking sites have really helped my “introvertedness” because I feel a lot less pressured when I first meet new people. When I first moved to St. Louis, I met a lot of new people through Facebook groups. I felt much better about attending an event I first heard about through Facebook because I already got to know people before I met them in person. I think there are so many positive ways social networking sites can be helpful in building community if we use them in a way honoring to God and His intentions for us to build community with one another.

ugh. I think FB is really just super dumb. Direct access to people you don’t know is dumb (remember, when you were little? “no talking to strangers” ring a bell?) Spending time searching for people only to COMPARE yourself to them? Dumb. (which, in case you didn’t know, is how Facebook started, as an off-shoot of Harvard’s Hot-or-Not website). If there weren’t any negative aspects to it then we wouldn’t be talking about “giving it up for Lent” (when was the last time people talked about giving up vegetables for Lent? or charity work? or time with their kids?) I KNOW you all think it’s great. If you’re in school then yeah, I guess it’s probably pretty cool…older than that and I think its creepy. Who on earth CARES what your “current status” is? SO lame. As for your “number of friends,” I have to TOTALLY disagree with Sally. Its quite simply not true that “more is more” when it comes to friends. Sorry girl, but quality irrevocably trumps quantity.

Nikki, you asked me about texting. I do a lot of it, more out of necessity than anything. Texting allows me to touch base with people I care about when I’m in the middle of busy work day. That’s important to me. I can’t make a bunch of phone calls everyday, my professional schedule doesn’t allow for it, so as I’m walking to my car I send a “thanks for lunch yesterday, it was great to see you” text. What I don’t do? Spend my free time sitting at the computer scanning photos of girls I didn’t even like in high school (oops…I accidentally slipped back to talking about FB).

OK, now we’re getting honest! I agree with a lot you have said here, Nicole. I think your opinion, as polar as it is from that of FB-lovers, helps bring us back to Earth to see what’s really happening here. People are “talking” and “hanging out” and “getting to know each other” without ever seeing each other’s eyeballs. That is weird to me. I fear that these cyber-replacements for true community will become so socially preferred that people will stop getting together at all.

Personally speaking, I’ve noticed that in the past ten years of communicating largely over email, my in-person conversation skills have gone downhill. I don’t have a delete button to my mouth, or 30 minutes to study the sentence I want to say. Not to mention the huge component of body language that enhances and keeps it real in relationships. I no longer feel natural having a conversation in person. I don’t necessarily blame my FB account — I joined a few months ago and simply don’t have much time to “hang out” there. But in general our culture is moving toward virtual relationships. Not actual ones.

However, I do think there is a place for taking part in these networks if the motives and time spent stay in check. I think they are good for keeping long-distance friends in touch. But like any addiction, there are seasons of denial, of enabling ourselves, of making excuses, of doing it “just one more minute… or hour,” and that’s when you know it’s a problem. As for fasting from FB, I agree with KJ — there needs to be a Godly replacement for that time spent. Otherwise, the idol time will be filled with another false source of fulfillment.

Ooh, juicy topic – I like it! I think your observation is a good one, Allie. Not always, but enough to make this a cause for concern, we women hold back on really cheering for other women and celebrating other women’s successes. My gut reaction is that part of this has to be coming from some deep-rooted instinct that other women are competitors (for attention and affirmation from men, for approval of other women, for who has the best cookie recipe/home decor/music taste/hair/anything we can think of).

For my part, I think that what makes it difficult to celebrate with other women is our similarity. As women, we have a lot of similar sore spots (wanting a relationship/a better relationship/better cookie recipes/better hair/a different body) and most of the things we celebrate as women are likely to still be a painful area for women around us (she’s excited about finding a better cookie recipe, and I’m still burning the living daylights out of Betty Crocker brownie mix – if you haven’t felt the shame of that, count yourself lucky). One woman’s joy can really draw out another woman’s most sensitive and deepest feelings of pain and brokenness – we can easily feel not only our lack of success/joy in a certain area, but also feel like we’ve lost an ally who used to understand our frustration. I know that doesn’t even begin to diagnose the problem, let alone start towards a solution, but I’m looking forward to you guys’ thoughts!

I see what you’re saying, Sally. We could totally use our common dreams and pain and desires to help aid deeper relationships, but instead sometimes it reminds us of what we don’t have and then the focus is back on ourselves instead of our sister who needs celebrating. Sin can make beautiful thoughts and relationships turn ugly!

I love it when I see women truly happy for each other — Nikki is a pro at this. She sees people’s blessings as God’s unique plan for them, and doesn’t compare it to her own life’s plan. Nikki, I hope you’ll share how you got to this place in your heart because it’s so encouraging to many people.

Allie – I think you give me too much credit here and clearly show how much YOU have become a pro at encouraging others! Thank you for such kind words.

You know, I am thinking about this topic (a topic that I love and feel like I deal with daily as I meet with students and hear their hearts, etc.) and I feel like the deepest part of what drives our inability to be genuinely happy for the women around us and what is happening in their lives is simply this: our own selfishness. That selfishness is marked by the “comparison game” (the competition issue that Sally brought up) as we look at those around us and see where we are measuring up. But the truth is, we are only concerned with comparing ourselves with others because we are so focused on our own selves. I guess another way we might say this is we have too much pride. Pride makes us think that we deserve something in this life and that we deserve to have better things going on in our lives than those around us. It is subtle, but if we think long enough on this topic, I think we see that it is there. Philippians 2:3 tells us that we are not to view others this way but to – actually – see them as “more significant” than ourselves! Changing how we look at women… seeing them as individuals unique in their own right before God – and unique as to what God is choosing to do in their lives is a first step for us (I think) in starting to “cheer on” the women around us.

We have to remember that God’s general will is the same for all of us, but His specific will for each of us is very individualistic. He did not ask us to weigh in on what He is doing in our girlfriends’ lives. Likewise, He is not asking them to weigh in on what He is doing in our lives. When we can rejoice with our friends and the good things that are happening to them – we are, for the Christian anyway, engaging in worship because the focus is on GOD and what HE is doing in their lives…. not on us and how great we think we are or what we think we deserve. It’s a different heart-focus.

What a great topic! I have especially observed the ugly side of girl-girl relationships in the middle school ministry I serve. I am constantly amazed how one day a group of two or three girls can be best friends, and the next day they are mortal enemies with one another. (And the break-up probably started with a discussion surrounding a new purse or a new pair of shoes). The challenge I face is helping my sixth grade girls realize how much they really need each other. Some of the most intimate and truly life-changing periods of my life have occurred with my girl friends because I know that often times men, and even female family members, cannot understand my heart (with all its insecurities and brokenness) as well as my best girl friends can. It is so heart-breaking to see a young girl who has been hurt by other girls grow up to be a cynical woman, able to trust in Christ, but definitely not willing to be exposed to their sisters in Christ. I really appreciate your comment, Nikki, about selfishness. When I consider my middle school girls, and the college-aged women they are growing up to be, I can begin to see how I can encourage them to restore broken relationships with each other. After all, they are selfishly holding themselves back from helping their sisters know the love of Christ more fully.

Does anyone remember that annoying camp/family vacation jingle “This Is The Song That Never Ends”? That’s how this “all girls hate all other girls” issue feels to me. WHY CAN’T WE JUST END IT?!?! We’ve written about it a few times before in both Gossip Girls and You’re So Vain… (so, reader, if you’re caught up in the middle of some girl on girl hatred, check those posts out as well). Unfortunately, there are some vicious women out there, ladies who intentionally hurt and harm the other women around them, but I really believe they are the exception rather than the rule. I think the issue really comes down to identity… where we find it, how secure we are in it, etc. In a previous post, Allie suggested taking the time to LOOK OTHER WOMEN IN THE EYE. I think that is such terrific advice. It is so much easier to disregard or disrespect someone who we don’t have to interact with face to face. If we take Allie’s wisdom and partner that with some introspection (what am I about?/what do I REALLY have against that girl…besides the fact that she has long legs, a great complexion, and people seem to really like her?) I think we will be more likely to compliment rather than condemn.

Nicole, I agree with you to an extent – it’s really sad that this is such a prevalent issue! I hate to disagree with you, though, when I say that I think that most women have trouble really celebrating with other women (or maybe the competition instinct is just me – apparently sinfulness loves company), especially with women who aren’t their closest friends. Other than that, I’m with you – I just want to take what you said one step further. When we backstab other women, when we secretly resent other women’s successes in life, what we’re really doing is telling ourselves (whether consciously or not) that they have something that we should have (unless we’re just so mean that we genuinely want bad things for other people, which I think is much less common than the self-focused “it’s not fair” mentality). But as much as we can call that a problem, I still think that we can’t just tell ourselves to “get over it” and make the problem go away. Yes, looking a woman in the eye and seeing her as a person is a GREAT idea. I just think that the root of the problem is selfishness, that the root of our selfishness is that we’re not content with what God has given us in life, and that the root of our discontentment is that we’re not operating like people who know that God is good and that He loves US (and us all).

Our feelings towards one girl who’s sickeningly pretty can be fixed by trying to see what makes her tick, but to me, that seems a bit like taking Tylenol for a broken bone – it’s not going to heal anything, just maybe provide some relief for the time being. It’s only so long before another sickeningly pretty girl tells you about her great new job, and then the same ugly competitive impulse pops up again. Only contentment seems to be able to break the competition cycle as far as I can tell!

Wow, you gals have covered a lot here! Nicole, I agree to an extent that we can and should just put an end to our competitiveness. It’s such a socially acceptable sin that many Christian women seem to just fall into because “everyone’s doing it.” And looking gals in the eye (instead of in the jeans) is still a very practical way to check ourselves when we enter a room and begin scanning other girls. While the bigger issue of selfishness is more difficult to process and begin changing (sounds like a great focus for personal study in the Word, and prayer for God’s transformation in our hearts), there are lots of practical ways to start cheering for our sisters. I’ll name a few:

• Pray for someone who you think is better, more blessed, more beautiful, etc. Keep praying until you’re able to thank God for her with a pure heart.
• Get to know this better, blessed, beautiful girl. When you truly love a friend with Christ’s love, comparisons can fade away and we see each other as daughters of God — no less and no more.
• Write someone an encouraging note, email, text, etc. Let her know you see God working in her life.
• Make a habit of listing your blessings. Thank God for what He has chosen for your life.
• Literally cheer for your sisters and friends. Show up for their performances or awards or causes that are important to them. Cheer loud! Join them in celebrating. Applaud their blessings, no strings attached.

These are all great suggestions. I think the point I was trying to make with the reminder to actually make eye contact with other women was just that we should regard them as PEOPLE, not POISON. I totally agree that we need to be content in who we are, as Sally suggested….I’m just not inclined to believe that confidence and contentment are a DECISION that a girl can make and suddenly turn her judgemental, girl-hating frown upside down. Instead, while she’s dealing with the PROCESS of correcting her own low-self-esteem/identity issues, a few life application tools (like the ones you mentioned Allie) might make that journey to self-discovery and acceptance a bit easier.

In an effort to dodge the “I liked X, Y or Z candidate better” minefield, I’ll say right off the bat that I think that the election, as a highly publicized event in which most people formed a strong opinion, was just an illustration of this trend and an opportunity for students to evaluate what they really thought. What I’d like to get your ideas on is this: what causes these changes in people’s opinions when they get to college? Is this just a natural part of growing up and learning who we are outside of our parents’ house? Do you think that people really change during college, or do you think that most students go through “just a phase” while they’re in the protected, intellectual college environment?

No late-bloomer jokes, by the way, on the fact that I’m asking myself these questions in law school rather than in my first semester of college

Sally – you raise a really interesting question here. I have to admit – one of the reasons that we founded Lily7 is directly related to the issue you are talking about: the decisions that one makes in college - not just about politics, however, but about all areas of life. To answer your question directly, I DO think that college is a time when men and women are investigating their thoughts on all areas of their lives. (Lily7’s tag line actually says that Lily7 exists to help young women “investigate their world, their faith, and their purpose.”) Naturally, I think that when this “investigation” happens, a person questions/challenges previous thinking and either further solidifies that thinking, or comes to a different conclusion altogether. Because we typically learn best when being challenged (educational theory here), it would seem to follow that decisions made during college tend to set one for life as they are the result of the “first round” (if you will) of challenging previous thoughts as one matures in life.

The key, however, and I do think that this is important, is to make sure that amidst those “challenges” that are going on and the decision making about one’s thoughts, that one makes sure to investigate fully ALL sides of the issues. I think this involves a lot of research (not biased research – true research – there is enough “biased” information out there already), a lot of processing, and a lot of praying (for those who are seeking God’s will in their lives). By way of example, I used to hold some beliefs that might shock some of our readers. But as I went through college and got better information and then studied that information in light of Biblical truth, I changed my position on lots of issues. I know I still have a lot to learn as well, but the educational years in college are such key times to be forming opinions that it is imperative for one to make sure they keep pushing for unbiased information and process such accordingly.

I agree, the college years are huge! I think it’s when we ought to be morphing into a real adult. (As opposed to a fake adult. The kind who can technically vote and live responsibly, but hasn’t figured out what that means yet.) My prayer for college students is for them to step away from the comforts of home and make their faith their own, if they indeed have faith in Christ. And then there are those who discover their need for a relationship with Christ while in college, like my husband. The impact of Christians living their faith and answering his questions marked him forever. I find college students are prime for God to do so much in and through them! Sadly, some are missing out on that growing time. I live in a town inundated with college students, and I hate to see them come and go and not be changed like they could be. What I mean is, some of them are actively seeking God, almost desperate to figure some things out, learn, gain wisdom for life ahead, serve, and grow. And then some are so busy with other things, they seem to miss that opportunity entirely. (That was more me in college!) I’m so impressed with our students and how they are growing, maturing, evaluating what they believe based on God’s Word, and pursuing wisdom rather than popular opinion or what they’ve always known. It’s a crucial and exciting time!

Speaking of changes, I’m going to be taking a sabbatical from writing on the blog. Just wanted to let everyone know so that you don’t think I fell off the planet and forgot about Lily 7. Far from it! Okay, sorry for the interruption of this conversation. Keep it coming.

I suppose the one thing I would add at this point is that with age, comes gray. Not necessarily gray hair (though it’s coming!) but gray areas. I think when we’re young, it’s much easier to see things as black and white…and often those categories are defined by the environment in which we’re raised and the people (specifically our parents) who are raising us.

It’s much easier to be a party line republican or democrat when you have limited knowledge or interest in ALL of the issues. However, with wisdom, age, and life experience, you start to see that both parties have stances you are FOR, and both hold positions you are AGAINST. This is true in other areas of life as well.

So my advice…explore the issues (whether of politics, world religions/views, personal faith, etc). Find people to explore with as well as people who are further along than you to learn from. Don’t let the mainstream media be your primary source of information. As Nikki said, pray for wisdom! You’re gonna need it…more and more with every passing year!

I really could have used this advice during my college years. I had the make-faith-your-own thing down pat, and put all of my energies into expressing my faith. But while I was busy joining every campus ministry group and attending Christian events every night, I let a lot of what was happening in the world pass me by. I was naiive towards political issues, blindly taking the Christian company line instead of looking into those issues myself and gaining knowledge and wisdom. I think I saw politics and world issues as too “grown up” to understand and copped out with “I’m not into politics.” I saw intellect as a barrier to an intimate relationship with Christ. Boy, was I mistaken! Now I see the beauty in worshipping Him and understanding Him with heart, soul, and MIND.

If I could go back, I would have admitted that I was a beginner in learning about large scale issues, and would have challenged myself to become more interested and involved. I would have taken a class that challenged my Christian company lines, to urge me to search and explore for myself what I believed.

College is an opportune time to grow by leaps and bounds in wisdom, understanding, and knowledge of our world and people’s viewpoints. And, I feel, most importantly a time to learn how to view these things through the lens of our faith in Christ and reliance on the Bible. Navigating that process can be clumsy at times for students, like I was, but it is worth the effort and will grow you into a more mature follower of Christ (not to mention an effective citizen and well-balanced listener and friend).

Great topic! “Ideas”, “philosophies”, and “ideologies” can be some of the most difficult, and yet rewarding, discussions. Being a philosophy major in college, I have always been one to really enjoy, and even begin, these types of conversations. Unfortunately, however, I often did it poorly. Here are a few things I would like to tell my former-self, regarding the investigation of ideas.
1. KJ’s point about gray areas. Issues are NEVER simple. They are always more complicated and nuanced than you recognize. We should learn to be more humble when we approach these sorts of conversations.
2. Ideas and points-of-view are important. But PEOPLE are more important. In philosophical/ideological conversation, it was always easy for me to bury my nose in the particular ins and outs of an idea or philosophy, and neglect the person I was engaging with. For instance, I would think, “Julie’s idea is dumb. Julie is dumb.”, and fail to hear Julie’s heart, or her perspective, or take the opportunity to really connect with someone. Not to say you can’t have a healthy disagreement (ahem…this blog, for instance ), but remember there are people, God’s treasured creation, behind the ideas we so easily dismiss.
3. Recognize God in the ideas. Not necessarily a “is this a theologically sound idea?” sort of recognition (although maybe!), but more of a “Wow. God made our minds to be so thoughtful and creative and curious. Thanks God!” Just recently my church had a sermon on the different “pathways” of connection to God, and among them was the “Intellectual” pathway. If you come alive when you are thinking conceptually or philosophically, use it to learn more about God! Read more. Discuss more. Write more. Enjoy being intellectual and ask God to use it to draw you closer to Him.

I agree with you ladies – I wish I had been humble enough to really listen to different perspectives in college! I know that my ideas about the world, what it really is like, and what I thought it should look like changed during college. I particularly like Jenn’s take on it – sometimes the changes you go through in college leave you exactly where you started, but with more of a sense that your beliefs are truly yours now, not just something that you went along with because that’s how you were raised. A lot of my more dramatic changes in college were that kind of change (or a complicated rebel-then-reconsider cycle version of it). Overall, though, I wish that I had let myself be free to change, and that (like a lot of you have said) I had been willing to listen more honestly to people. Stubbornness is not the same thing as strong conviction, and I think that I was often too afraid that the other side of an argument could be true to listen to what the argument really was. One of the biggest things I had to learn in college was that, with most heated issues, truly kind-hearted people could honestly disagree (and that God didn’t necessarily agree with me or hate the other side of the argument just because I was a Christian).

Great questions, Nikki! For starters, I have a lot of trouble defining what gossip is and what it isn’t. Maybe the line between sharing each other’s struggles and gossip isn’t really that blurry, but I know that I can at least convince myself that a lot of my gossip is well-intentioned sharing. Does anyone know how to distinguish between gossip and something more innocent? Am I the only one who plays the “this doesn’t count as gossip because (insert bad logic here)” game?

The “why do we do it” question is one that I have a lot of trouble figuring out. I think I’ve found that when I gossip, there’s usually a sharp divide between what I tell myself is my motive for talking about someone and what my true, underlying motive is. I’m honest with myself, though, there are usually two motives behind my gossip.

First, underneath it all, I’m motivated by the desire to pull someone else down. It’s like I believe that life is one big game of “king of the hill,” and I can only be accepted if everyone else is worse, or worse off, than me. It’s truly sick, I know, but every time I speak or hear gossip, it’s like there’s a scorecard in my heart that counts off “That girl = -1, Sally = +1.” Second, though, I also get a feeling of being in-the-know and important when I get to tell someone a piece of information which isn’t generally known. Underneath it all, I also want to know, and to have other people know, that I’m important enough to be included in what’s going on. When I gossip, part of what I’m really saying is “Aren’t I great? I know things.” It’s just one way that my deep-rooted desire to be part of the “inner circle” manifests itself. Do you guys experience that, or is this one of those “no, Sally, we don’t feel that way, and in fact you’re a monster” situations?

Ephesians 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
This is continually one of the most convincting verses in the Bible for me. I quote this to my kids about 15 times a day, and it hits me every time. What is gossip? My daughter actually asked me that last night as we encountered the word in a book she was reading, and I answered, passing along unfavorable information about someone else, and it in no way edifies them. When we say things which make other people look bad and us good, that’s the ugly sin nature in us. I hate it. I can look back over the years and remember things I’ve said, and I wish I had a time machine to go back and erase it. I used to say “If only I had a filter between my brain and my mouth!” I thought I just needed to better filter those thoughts instead of letting them all fly right out of my mouth. But that wasn’t true at all. The scripture made clear to me that the thoughts were where the sin originated. Jesus said evil words come from an evil heart. And so I needed to start dealing with my thought life. He always takes it back to the heart, right? Sometimes we know something (information-wise) that we feel a burning desire to pass on (don’t know why?) and it’s not our business to do so. It’s not sin that we know it, not necessarily, but we have to learn self-control and NOT talk. That’s very hard for us. And “prayer requests” veiled in gossip are just as sinful as any other gossip.

There is so much good scripture, like in James, about taming our tongues, and Proverbs is full of wise words about this as well, which gets down to the heart issue. The root of our desire to tear others down and to build ourselves up is ugly pride and a need for humility. That’s where I am when I realize I’ve said something horrid and I have to humble myself and go back and make it right with whomever was on the receiving end of it. I’m not there yet! Not really even close! But I do have a check in my spirit just before I say things that I used to not have. The Holy Spirit is faithful to nudge me before gossip comes out. Sometimes I ignore that nudge, but other times I stop mid-sentence and look really stupid, but I STOP. I have had to learn to stop talking and examine my heart for a moment. It’s not always pretty, but God is doing a work.

No, Sally, you are not a monster. (Or maybe we’re monsters together.) I am totally the same way. And I really liked the way you defined gossip, being motivated either by a “scorecard-mentality”, or by the “look at how important I am” feeling. Really, I’m using another person’s issues or misfortune to make me feel better about myself. It’s ultimately about me and my issues, and not about someone who may be in sincere need of prayer and/or support.

My only bit of advice on this one would be surround yourself with friends who are willing to challenge you on the information you pass along. I have a couple friends who will ask, at the beginning of a “gossip-y” conversation “Do I really need to know this?” That has been a great check for me. And I’m learning to become the type of friend that will ask the same thing.

Following that point, however, is another question for you ladies. Are there ever situations where passing along information about another person is appropriate? Or perhaps, even needed? What do those situations look like? When does a third party need to know?

Convicting verse for me, too, Jenn. Thanks for sharing. And Erica – you asked another question that I wanted to pose as well. Is it ever appropriate to pass along information that is not “beneficial” or for “building up” one another?

I have one more question to add to the mix for some of our writers who may not have any differing opinions than what has already been expressed … is sarcasm about someone who is not present to the conversation (e.g., implying something about their character, or reactions to a situation, or a general statement about them, etc.) something we include in the “gossip” genre? For example, statements referencing others we might envy by saying “well, IT MUST BE SOOOO NICE for her to have her whole college paid for.. I’m sure money is just SOOOO stressful for her right now given her family’s financial situation…” Can you “hear” the sarcasm there? The negative statement? Perhaps revealing facts about this other person’s financial status that the listeners present wouldn’t have known about otherwise? I just wonder if we would think of this as gossip as well. Of course, for those of us who enjoy sarcasm (and I am one of those), this whole idea of sarcasm as gossip may seem no different than any other mechanism of communication.

Sally, I think if we’re honest, somewhere inside of ALL of us is the desire to be “king of the hill”. It’s why Adam and Eve ate the apple and it continues to at the root of our “sin problem”. Sarcasm, gossip, slander…no matter how you term it, when we tear someone else down our primary motive is typically elevating ourselves.

Nikki, I definitely don’t think all sarcasm is bad. I recently went to a comedy show and laughed until I cried at one sarcastic joke after another…HOWEVER, this particular comedian’s sarcasm is not at the expense of other people. He made fun of himself, of food, of general American laziness, but he did NOT tear down his wife or kids or mother or friends.

As with so many things, we need to check our motives. If you’re making a sarcastic comment about a friend that you wouldn’t make if they were in the room, you probably should keep it to yourself. If you know they’d be laughing right along with you, it’s probably okay to let it fly.

The verse which continually convicts me is this: “Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks” (Matthew 12:34) Sometimes I will literally hear the ugliness of my heart in my words…and keeping my mouth shut is of secondary importance to the much greater need of heart change.

Great topic Nikki. Gossip is responsible for so much broken relationship, and we (especially we women) desperately need to pursue righteousness in this area.

To answer the question about when it might be appropriate to pass on information, I think if someone is in serious risk of harming themselves or someone else, it’s important to tell someone. That doesn’t mean your entire circle of girlfriends. But the right person. Someone you feel could directly help the person at risk.

In the case where someone is being betrayed and you have knowledge that would bring the situation to light, I think the high road would be to approach the betrayer and encourage them to come clean. Sometimes that is all we can do — other than getting in the middle of sticky situations and he-said/she-said ordeals. Holding our tongue can be a way of holding people accountable to have necessary conversations or restoration of relationships.

Also, make a point to speak well of people “behind their backs.” If bringing up someone’s name leads to people asking nosey questions about her situation, a reply of “You should ask her that. It’s a pretty personal thing” can be a safe answer. If you’re in a conversation where gossip has started, make every effort to gracefully change the subject. An abrupt change of topic can actually be pretty powerful, too, because it makes the statement that you are not taking part in the sin. Hopefully others will feel that conviction and follow your lead towards more edifying talk.

Something else I have found myself guilty of is feeling more free to gossip with my closest friends. I used to think having really, good friends meant being able to say anything to them. When left on our own, saying anything is NOT a good thing! Ever! I need my closest friends to be holding me accountable the most to having edifying speech and not falling into gossip. Again, the problem is in my heart. I can justify gossip a thousand different ways, but God knows my heart and He’s the only one who can fix it. Time with intimate friends should not be a free license to gossip, but it should be an environment of honest accountability and building up. That’s what I need!

Tell me about it, Jenn! We could all use some good accountability on this issue! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been talking to a group when someone else starts gossiping about another person, and that same “king of the hill” mentality kicks in for me. When people start gossiping around you, it seems like your options are to either join in, stay quiet, or stand up for the gossip-target. I’m a bit of a coward, so I usually end up going with the “join in” option (or the “stay quiet” option when I’m feeling particularly guilty about the gossip). We’ve mentioned accountability with gossip or the “abrupt subject change,” but how does that work when you’re not among close friends? As someone who struggles with gossip, is there a way to stand up to people without becoming the world’s biggest hypocrite?

Before I start, you should know that I have LOTS of weaknesses. Lots of poor behavior that I’m not proud of. I am WAY worse than any of you. You are all saints compared to how bad I am. As terrible as I am, though, as CORRUPT and MESSED UP as I am, I honestly don’t struggle with gossip. I am intentionally pointing out how sinful I am so that you know that I’m not trying to say that I am better than you or holier than you or more mature than you… I…AM…NOT. I DO feel like gossip is pretty cut and dried, however. My reasoning isn’t founded in deep theological principles, and it isn’t driven by my admirable character. It is simply driven by logic and self-preservation. Namely, if I can’t keep a secret, if I feel compelled to tell you “what I know/what I heard/what I think” about someone else, then I would be a TOTAL MORON to not expect you to do the exact same thing. If I can’t keep a secret then I shouldn’t expect you to. If I can’t keep my fat mouth shut then I shouldn’t be all shocked and betrayed when you can’t either. This is a simple approach, I know, but bottom line: I don’t gossip because I don’t want you to. So stop talking about me Kelly!

Haha! Nicole – you are an encouragement to all of us to “just not do it.” I have to be honest with you, CL gals – all of your inputs here have really got me thinking and cross-checking myself on this issue. You each have shared great wisdom/encouragement. When I was having the discussion with students about why we prefer male friendships to female friendships (which started off this blog), I realized that an area God is currently working on me in is that I struggle to trust women….and one part of that trust issue is rooted in wondering who will “have my back” when I am not around and who will “talk behind my back.”

One last thought I would add to this, in the last couple of years I have tried to seriously consider how “beneficial” my words are…I have a long way to go to get this concept mastered. But when Paul wrote to the church at Corinth and said, “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive. (1 Corinthians 10:23), I think he gave us a good standard to live by. As women, I imagine we could do a lot for each other and our friendships if we thought through our conversations with this truth in mind. I am renewing this challenge for myself in light of your thoughts here. Thanks for responding!

So CL sisters, how do we do that? Where is the balance between “fine” and a 20-minute sob story on stress, disappointment, and TMI about that annoying rash on our foot? And on the flip-side, how do you inquire about someone’s life with sincere interest, hoping to hear an honest response instead of the predictable “fine?” How can we as Christian women rewrite this script?

I love this question, Allie, because I find myself struggling within the tension of being too “flippant” and yet “too real” in my own answers to this question! My initial gut reaction is responding to these questions somewhere in “the middle” — a real response, but not one that ends up in a 20 minute monologue about one’s life. If the person asking is really wanting to know more (genuinely), then usually that person will either ask more questions at that point or if the setting is not right for such a discussion, respond light-heartedly and the conversation moves on. I think there is also a social dynamic that is often-times playing in a question such as “How are you?” By that I mean that one has to judge the situation and determine if the person is asking the question to know how we are really doing, or just asking the question in place of the usual “hello” greeting. If we can discern which greeting is being used – that can also flag us as to how to respond. For example, if it is along the lines of a “hello” greeting – then “fine” is probably a normal response. If it is a friend you have known awhile and are now seeing over the holidays for the first time and they are genuinely curious about how you are doing – then maybe a more “real” response is warranted.

That’s a great distinction: the “hello” question or the “really wanting to know” question. That makes me feel better about the times when I do just say “fine” because that’s really what is appropriate (like if the person is walking and doesn’t slow down to hear my answer!). So I guess the more focused question becomes, how do we share honestly about what’s going on, and if the person asking really wants to know? And how do we get people to share more with us? Those of you who have mentored or are great listeners, what are some good ways to ask questions in these situations?

I remember the first time a friend of mine asked how I was, and it was during a difficult season and I said “Not so well.” Her response was brilliant: “That sucks! What’s going on?” I loved that because she (obviously with her distinct personality coming through) showed she cared but kept it light enough that I could share more without feeling like a counseling situation.

More thoughts?

It sounds like your friend had a knack for feeling out situations, Allie! Sadly, I have nothing like that kind of social grace, so take this with a HUGE grain of salt. If you can get away with a cut-straight-to-it approach, ask something like “what’s been going on for you since I talked with you last?” If you prefer something a bit more smooth (the scenic route), try asking about something specific, like your friend’s work or school. Too often, friends will stick to extremes like the keep-walking-how’s-it-going or the intimidating “so, what’s been going on in your life?” I don’t know about you all, but I tend to freeze when someone asks me that second, broad question – I think either “wow, I can’t tell this person about that stuff that’s going on – not exactly cocktail party material” or “wow, I can’t think of anything besides finals…I’m the most boring person ever born.” So for the sake of everyone you know who might be either boring (maybe that’s just me) or dealing with real issues, start small and wait for them to open up naturally!

There are definitely times that real discussion of how you are is not appropriate or possible, but hopefully, if we take time to think about it, we have people in our lives that we are routinely honest with about how we really are, and we are people who genuinely care when asking others. If we go to church or work with our fake face on all the time, that should give us cause for concern.

That’s all I’ve got.

Interesting questions. As for Allie’s original question (how do we strike the right balance when someone asks how we’re doing), I think Nikki’s points are key. And I usually try to determine someone’s intention with their question using a couple cues:

(1) How well do I know this person? Have we had serious “how-ARE-you?” discussions before? Do I know them well enough to trust them with deeper issues? Or are they a friendly acquaintance trying to be polite?

(2)What’s the social context? Is there enough time/privacy to get into deeper issues, even with someone I know well? This happens to me a lot at church. I go to church with many good friends, and sometimes Sunday can feel like a line-up of counseling appointments. Usually in this situation I give the “short” version of how I really am. If I’m not doing well, then I don’t lie and say “great!” but I’ll offer the simpler answer to the “why?” question (”Oh, school is just getting stressful these days.”) Then if it’s someone I’d really love to talk more with, I try to schedule a coffee date, or make sure the next time I see them, we can really talk.

Ok, this is kind of cheesy, but one thing I have often done with some old friends of mine that I only get to see a few times a year (holiday season being one of them), is share our “high and low” since the last time we were together. What’s been the highlight, what’s been the low point. It’s a great way to go a little deeper without going on and on about everything that’s happened since we saw each other last.
Another thing to remember is that people are often as open as you are…so if you’re really wanting to know what’s going on in someones life, make sure you’re sharing the same level of truth about your own.

Good points, ladies. I don’t mean to overanalyze this common social exchange, but your thoughts are helpful and come with experience.

As far as holiday gatherings go, we probably aren’t going to schedule coffee with Aunt Betty to tell her more than “fine,” but I do encourage everyone to use those opportunities to share your joy in Christ. If you only have a few minutes to catch up with a relative, be sure to ask something specific about their life and show you care. And if asked, share something God has been doing in your life (or your “highlight” like KJ suggested.) After all, these are times to be thankful and joyful, not just “fine.”

KJ, we also do highs and lows a lot! We meet weekly with a church small group, and also teach a class for engaged couples, and we start off with everyone’s highs and lows for the week. This has enabled us to really get to know people quickly! You know the big things, good and bad. It takes a little time to go around the circle, but it breaks through the ‘how are you’ and ‘fine’ facade. We also do highs and lows with our kids at the dinner table at night sometimes. We get some surprising and neat answers from them. This might be a good idea for roommates to do when they get together. We just need the right opportunity to share with people and be real. Transparency is challenging, but rewarding in our relationships. We need each other!

Spiritual leadership. No doubt about it. The Bible tells us that men should be leaders in the home and in the church. I think the most masculine man is one who shows solid servant leadership skills, no matter what his personality. Ephesians 5 tells men to be the head of their wives, and then love her like Jesus loves us, laying down his life for us. That’s a pretty tall order, but when men step up to the challenge and learn to lead with Christ as their role model, that’s pretty dang manly. I think it’s important for men to realize, Godly leadership is not like CEO, worldly, Donald Trump type leadership. A man might have a quiet, soft spoken, easy going personality, but he can still be an amazing leader. My Dad is a perfect example. He was the leader of our home and is a pastor of a church. His personality did not dictate his leadership skills, but God developed those abilities in him over time and his seeking the Lord. Consequently, I’m looking for ways to cultivate leadership in my boys because they are ultimately called upon to lead someday.

Jenn, that’s an excellent point about a man being capable of strong leadership regardless of his personality. I think some of us women equate a macho, extroverted, public speaker with “leader.” But God can build any personality towards serving, leading, and setting a godly example for his family and circle of influence. When I look at Jesus’ personality on earth, I can see times when he is that outspoken people-magnet, and also times when he’s more contemplative, even introverted.

One other trait I’d add under the umbrella of Real manhood is Maturity. It’s hard to pin down an exact description (and it’s a lifelong process I’m sure), but I’d venture to say that if a guy is immature (think more like foolish, childish, avoiding responsibility, lacking tact or respect) he will not receive the respect due to a “real man.” I’m sure I’ll get some disagreement on this one – so let me just clarify I’m not saying a Godly man can’t HAVE FUN, laugh at life, and share humor. Good grief, some guys who I can tell are working hard at being Real Men are just too serious and somber! But the Maturity factor is one that is easy to spot when you examine a guy’s priorities, the way he spends his time, the way he treats his family and friends, etc.

Those are some of the big ticket items for me. I’m curious about responses to Nicole’s question about the every day things that we associate with a guy being a man? Can guys wear pink?

I think there’s a long list of traits we associate with being “manly.” When I think of the stereotypical “manly man,” I think of a guy who loves watching (and playing) sports, doesn’t like to read, works out a lot, and avoids long or emotional conversations. Like Jenn and Allie said, I think that our ideas “masculine” sometimes border on “macho,” which doesn’t seem too far from “caveman.”

That’s my knee-jerk idea of what masculinity is, but I think that the caveman version of masculinity is the default version that a lot of men fall into when their relationships with God are weak or nonexistent. I think that masculinity, when it’s working right, has a sense of purpose and adventure to it. Honestly, the effect that Christianity has on men (and women, but that’s another topic) is one of the things that confirms my faith. Have you noticed that when men get closer to God, they become more mature as individuals, get more focused, and exude a really cool strength of character? Sign me up for the faith that has that kind of effect in the real world!

GREAT last thought there, Sally!! Love it! Okay….there is no surprise (I don’t think) on what I am going to say on this one. I actually give a talk to college men called “She Might Just Be That Into You” in which this topic is addressed in the sense of what women want from men (based on informal research through Lily7 and events/conferences) and what the Bible says about it. Leadership has already been mentioned so I’ll take it one step further and add on to what Sally just addressed: I think masculinity also encompasses the ability to pursue...be it in the dating realm, a career, whatever. Obviously, pursuit to be more like Christ is a personal favorite here. Most women I know tend to complain about men “not acting like men” and when you ask them what they are talking about – it usually hinges on this idea of “being pursued.” I don’t think that the ability to pursue looks the same for every guy (as was already mentioned in regard to what leadership might look like), but I do think that there is an innate (created in us) desire to see men pursue. For some of us, this may conjure up images of men hunting or fighting for a “right” cause (I actually just heard a talk on this very issue by Craig Groeschel in which he argues that every man NEEDS a cause to fight for as part of his masculinity), but I’m not sure there is just one “visual” for this. So…initially, my response here is that masculine men are men who pursue… as to what that looks like, I think there could be numerous responses. The end result, however, is that they are not “passive” men – they are “pursuing” men.

A few scripture references for men to look at include Titus 1, Ephesians 5, and the book of Proverbs (much of the time, written from father to son, giving specific advice to men, even warning against treacherous women!) Ephesians 5 I already referenced, in the role of husband and father in the family. But Titus 1 gives the qualifications of an elder in the church as follows: Titus 1:7-9
7 An elder must live a blameless life because he is God’s minister. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered; he must not be a heavy drinker, violent, or greedy for money. 8 He must enjoy having guests in his home and must love all that is good. He must live wisely and be fair. He must live a devout and disciplined life. 9 He must have a strong and steadfast belief in the trustworthy message he was taught; then he will be able to encourage others with right teaching and show those who oppose it where they are wrong. While I know many younger men are not looking toward the position of elder in the church right now, the scripture also says that all men should be striving toward these qualifications. (looking for that reference, Sally.) The other qualifications not included in that excerpt include the kind of husband and father a man should be, which is also worth looking at. I think these things truly lay out what the Godly, mature man should look like!

It’s interesting to me how quickly we have used verbage describing how a man should be in relationship with a woman to describe masculinity. When we discussed femininity, it was a long ways into blogging before anyone tied femininity to how we relate with men.
My point: just as we women need to figure out who we are (who God has made us) entirely separate from a man, we need to give men that same freedom.
Nikki’s point about men being pursuers vs. passive is a good one…as long as “pursuer” is describing their work, their knowledge, their passions, their God…as opposed to just their “romantic interest”.
The Titus 1 verses are great descriptors of a Godly man, and throughout the Bible there are men whose lives we can look to for characteristics of “manliness”. With this in mind, I think we can do a better job of answering the original question (”what makes a ‘guy’ a ‘man’?”). Thoughts?

For me, personally, a “guy” is a “man” when he is wise about how he spends his time. For example, he doesn’t spend his time playing Xbox all day long. I’m not trying to be harsh about this, but I just get tired of seeing so many guys spending so much time “pursuing” video games and to what end? What “growth” happens there? (Maybe one could argue that combat games on Xbox prepare one for the military…) I will also just say that I am a big fan of movies like Gladiator, Braveheart, the Batman Begins/Dark Knight series, etc. I guess that I am attracted to these type of movies because I see the male characters there as “men” who are strong in character and in their passions for “pursuing” a just cause. When I think of masculinity – I immediately think of examples like the characters found in those films. (See….I really do see this “pursuit” thing as part of masculinity… ) And to add on to KJ’s point (which I think is quite valid) – these were characters who were not pursuing romantic relationships, per se. Their pursuit was in the realm of good vs. evil and seeing justice achieved.

I think you guys are all making excellent points. Nikki, your post made me think about what it looks like for guys to fight for something in the “good versus evil” category. My reaction was: what happens when a guy works a desk job? What happens when there’s no obvious evil in his life to fight against – where does this apply in the daily grind of a man’s life (obviously, we wouldn’t be too happy with a man who tackled his neighbor for failing to pick up the mess that Fido just left – I think we can agree that a man needs a sense of what is evil and what is merely annoying!)? Does a man need an advancing army or an action sequence to be masculine?

I tried applying that question to my dad. While he’s not perfect by any means, I very much respect my dad, and he’s the person I think about when I hear the word “character.” Dad prioritizes his relationship with God, he prioritizes his relationship with my mom over his relationships with us kids, and he works sacrificially to take care of all of us. He fixes faucets and paints the garage when needed. His relationships, his job, and his free time are all parts of the “daily grind” of his life, and yet there’s a definite sense of purpose there. This might be repeating the examples you’ve all been giving, and I know that I might have just described “Type A Personality” more than “Godly character in men,” but that’s what this all looks like in practice to me!

Before I get started, I just wanted to apologize for not keeping up with the blogs. Life has been crazy busy, and honestly I kept forgetting to post! However, when I saw the topic of this blog, I suddenly had the urge to NOT forget to post this time. I don’t know why that is…

This is good stuff, ladies. I’m excited to share my perfectly masculine opinion on this subject I know so well. Okay, that statement may not be completely accurate, but humor isn’t immature (as we’ve already established), so don’t count it against me, alright?

To start, I’d like to echo what Nikki (what’s good, big sis?!) said about how a guy spends his time wisely (or not so wisely), and how that affects his “manliness.”

(Note: In this post, I will be addressing biblical masculinity or “manliness” in particular. So questions like, “should guys where pink?” will not be addressed. Although, just to be clear – I do not wear clothes that are more than 20% pink.)

How a man spends his time is a huge indication of what kind of a man he is. Nikki, what you said about video games is right on. I know you weren’t trying to be harsh, but I will be. If a guy stays up all night to play video games, works all day to make money to buy more video games, and uses his vacation days to host Halo tournaments at his mom’s house with all of his buddies, what is that going to get him? Or maybe a more appropriate question to ask is, Where is that going to get him? Don’t get me wrong, there was a time in my life when this guy was me, and I commonly refer to that time as “High School.”

This applies to many more time-consuming activities. I just figured I’d keep with the video game example since Nikki is a pro and knows more about college men than I do.

In all seriousness though, I believe the talk about a pursuit is right on. As mentioned before, this doesn’t necessarily mean romantic pursuit (although it is certainly included), but this includes all aspects of life. Pursuing a career, spiritual growth, a community, relationships, etc., is all a part of what a Godly man pursues.

If a man is to become the man God created him to be, then he must use his masculine tendencies to pursue Jesus with all that he has – his money, his time, his energy, etc. The opposite of this is someone who spends hours and hours online checking his fantasy football rankings while blogging about how many weapons his World of Warcraft character has. Not only is this man not going to be the Godly man he is called to be, but he is not going to challenge and lead other men. In addition, I personally don’t know any women who would even think about going on a date with a guy like this.

Before I continue, let me be clear on a couple things. First of all, I don’t mean to pick on guys who enjoy fantasy football, World of Warcraft, or Halo. These things are not bad in and of themselves, and I personally have enjoyed them all at one point in my life. However, my pastor often says sin is not just limited to bad things (murder, lying, etc.), but it is also sin when we make good things great. So, my point is these hobbies and games can and do become idols (someone or something we worship besides God) for many men, and Christian men are called to something much greater than winning a Halo tournament.

Second, challenging other men and pursuing marriage are great things for a man to pursue. However, I would be careful not to let these good pursuits become great. These are not the worth-defining pursuits. Godly manliness is not ultimately gauged by whether or not men challenge other men, or are pursuing marriage.

So what does make a man Biblically masculine? What is it that men need to pursue in order to grow in their God-given masculinity??

God, through Jesus, lovingly pursued us in order to save us from Satan, our sin, and the world (see Philippians 2:5-8). Jesus gave all of His time and energy towards selflessly loving others. In response to what Jesus has done, God calls us to give ourselves fully to Him. In Exodus 20, God declares, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.” He then starts the Ten Commandments by saying, “You shall have no other gods before me.” In the New Testament, Jesus says this is the most important commandment of all (Mark 12:28-30). Therefore, a man’s pursuit to not have any other gods before God should be his primary pursuit.

In light of all this, I am sure all of my brothers out there are asking, “How do I pursue the one, true God with my entire life?” Well, I’m glad you asked! We pursue Jesus-the One who perfectly pursued God, in our place, even when it meant death on a cross. This is biblical masculinity-this selfless, humble, yet confident pursuit of something or someone worthy of our lives-even if it means we literally lose our life. Jesus was tempted in every way we are, yet He was without sin. He had no other gods but God. In contrast, we are tempted and we sin. We have many other gods besides God. Because of this, we cannot rely on our own ability to pursue God. Instead, we must trust and hope in Jesus, who has already perfectly pursued God, where we could not.

When men pursue Jesus, who is the ultimate example of masculinity, they discover the masculinity God has called them to. Then, and only then, do men zealously read their Bibles, love their wives, father their children, and challenge other men to do the same. They do not pursue these things out of duty, but out of gratitude to the One who first pursued them.

Wow. I’ve been known to enjoy a video game or two (or ten…). I’m glad I’m not being measured on this new “no video games” masculinity scale

I posted last night (apparently while Jeremy was also posting) and so now everything that I typed is gone…bad, bad, bad. It was just some general rambling and I think Jeremy has really done quite a nice job, so you’re all the better for having his thoughts in lieu of mine…

Sadly, I must run off to sell cupcakes (but first, I have to work on my fantasy football line-up for this week…).

Great thoughts on a really hard question. I’m so happy we’re talking about this! I think this has SUCH importance for our readers, both while they consider who to date/marry, but also to better illuminate their own femininity. I do believe that masculinity and femininity were designed to complement each other, and both reflect beautiful parts of God’s character.

I think a lot of men, Christian men especially, shy away from their responsibilities and duck out of their duties and callings as men because they want to protect their own sense of comfort. And while I’ve known men like this, and generally find that they are interesting people, I rarely come to respect them. And that this is what I think a real man naturally garners: respect.

So when I think of a mighty mighty good man, I think of someone that takes responsibility for his life, someone who isn’t lazy and doesn’t make excuses. This has already been mentioned some (and thanks Jeremy for the male insight! So valuable!), but I really want to reiterate it: a man works. This was part of the masculine identity God gave men in the Garden of Eden: women bear children, and men labor. He works to provide for his family; He works to protect his friends; He works to bring restoration to the lives of people around him; and he works with the confidence and humility of knowing his identity is in Christ, and not in his work. I don’t want to apply traditional stereotypes to this idea though, because I don’t think this means a man has to be the main bread-winner of his family (or that women shouldn’t work). But I do think this means a man must assume responsibility for the well-being of his family, and must labor towards something. I think that child-rearing could very well be the job that a man labors and works towards. (I like the picture of your Dad, Sally. It sounds like he does a great job of taking responsibility, even for the small things.) To be responsible, I believe, is a display of strength.

Also, I think another key to Biblical masculinity can be found one of the most perplexing juxtapositions in Jesus’ character (and we all know that Jesus is the Mighty Mighty Best Man!): simultaneous leadership and servant-hood. A real man leads, but he leads not for power or for control, he leads so that he may serve.

I think all of this is a great multi-faceted discussion on the topic. KJ, I understand your point about the femininity blog not being all about females relating with guys, but since we are writing this Manly blog from a female standpoint, to a female readership, I think our conversation will naturally bend towards how we perceive men from our experiences (which to me says: relationships with them). I think our female readers will relate well with our thoughts about what kind of guy we’d like to marry and be pursued by. That slant didn’t bother me. I think Jeremy added the perspective you were looking for — since he’s a guy and has first-hand perspective, and doesn’t need the bridge of relationship to facilitate our discussion of manly men.

I do love that this conversation landed on the directives of Scripture, because that’s tangible stuff that we can use to perceive and pray for the men we know!