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	<title>Comments on: Femininity</title>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Even though I don't hate the word "feminine" (it does communicate - in some contexts - what we need it to), I can see what Emily is getting at. All the things that first come to mind when I hear the word "feminine" are comparably shallow. It's not that I think makeup, skirts and manicures are bad - I like all those things.  It's just that makeup is nothing compared to confidence. Skirts are nothing compared to faithfulness and manicures are nothing compared to compassion. The way I interpret what God is saying (as Jen pointed out above) is that blush, lip gloss and mascara just don't make us more beautiful to Him (Imagine the designer of your face watching you cover it up...or make it "better"). However, I imagine putting on some gentleness, some self control or some forgiveness would make you shine even brighter in His eyes.

On another note, I'm especially glad that liking babies isn't a Biblical trait ascribed to women alone. Just look at any new father. I would say a good percentage of both sexes don't melt over babies that aren't theirs. I think there are a lot of underlying reasons guys don't go up to babies and coo, but I doubt the main one is "I don't like them". At least I hope not...hmmm...where did my stacks of statistics go?

Thanks for all your thoughts CL ladies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though I don&#8217;t hate the word &#8220;feminine&#8221; (it does communicate - in some contexts - what we need it to), I can see what Emily is getting at. All the things that first come to mind when I hear the word &#8220;feminine&#8221; are comparably shallow. It&#8217;s not that I think makeup, skirts and manicures are bad - I like all those things.  It&#8217;s just that makeup is nothing compared to confidence. Skirts are nothing compared to faithfulness and manicures are nothing compared to compassion. The way I interpret what God is saying (as Jen pointed out above) is that blush, lip gloss and mascara just don&#8217;t make us more beautiful to Him (Imagine the designer of your face watching you cover it up&#8230;or make it &#8220;better&#8221;). However, I imagine putting on some gentleness, some self control or some forgiveness would make you shine even brighter in His eyes.</p>
<p>On another note, I&#8217;m especially glad that liking babies isn&#8217;t a Biblical trait ascribed to women alone. Just look at any new father. I would say a good percentage of both sexes don&#8217;t melt over babies that aren&#8217;t theirs. I think there are a lot of underlying reasons guys don&#8217;t go up to babies and coo, but I doubt the main one is &#8220;I don&#8217;t like them&#8221;. At least I hope not&#8230;hmmm&#8230;where did my stacks of statistics go?</p>
<p>Thanks for all your thoughts CL ladies!</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K.</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 05:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-453</guid>
		<description>Because the term needs to be revamped due to too much cultural/societal baggage.

I most definitely think there are generalizable personality/design differences between men and women.  MOST DEFINITELY.  :)

I just don't think that they necessarily fit what our society and culture calls masculine/feminine, and that rather they're a whole different set of identifiers.  I think the best we can call it is being a Godly man or a Godly woman, or saying a woman after God's heart, or a man after God's heart.  I see masculinity/femininity as having nothing to do with it... those are just words, to me, that our culture uses to define those generalizable differences, but I don't think they fit the Biblical picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because the term needs to be revamped due to too much cultural/societal baggage.</p>
<p>I most definitely think there are generalizable personality/design differences between men and women.  MOST DEFINITELY.  <img src='http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t think that they necessarily fit what our society and culture calls masculine/feminine, and that rather they&#8217;re a whole different set of identifiers.  I think the best we can call it is being a Godly man or a Godly woman, or saying a woman after God&#8217;s heart, or a man after God&#8217;s heart.  I see masculinity/femininity as having nothing to do with it&#8230; those are just words, to me, that our culture uses to define those generalizable differences, but I don&#8217;t think they fit the Biblical picture.</p>
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		<title>By: erica</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Emily, thanks for the comments!  I'm really glad you're pressing us on some of these issues.  

Just a question of clarification:  Do you disagree with concept of "Biblical femininity" because you think there really are no generalizable personality/design differences between men and women, or because you think the term needs to be revamped due to too much cultural/societal baggage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily, thanks for the comments!  I&#8217;m really glad you&#8217;re pressing us on some of these issues.  </p>
<p>Just a question of clarification:  Do you disagree with concept of &#8220;Biblical femininity&#8221; because you think there really are no generalizable personality/design differences between men and women, or because you think the term needs to be revamped due to too much cultural/societal baggage?</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K.</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-451</guid>
		<description>OH my... I do things like that often... saw Carrie's name at the top of the list and so wrote it:  I meant to address you Sally!!  My apologies... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OH my&#8230; I do things like that often&#8230; saw Carrie&#8217;s name at the top of the list and so wrote it:  I meant to address you Sally!!  My apologies&#8230; <img src='http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Emily K.</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-450</guid>
		<description>I understand what you're getting at, Carrie, my whole issue though is in regards to even the use of "femininity" in trying to describe... anything.

I don't think that the scriptural passages you point to depict "Biblical femininity"... because I don't even like the word.  Does that make sense?  I may totally be wrong in this, but, to me what those passages point to is how a woman who loves God will be shaped to fit his character, because she'll put her hope in God, she'll work hard, use the mind God gave her, be generous.  But I don't consider any of those things feminine... because I just really disagree with us using the word, I find the word too wrapped up in cultural and contextual meanings to glean anything Biblical from it.

I am wondering though, why I dislike it so much, and so I'll be looking into that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand what you&#8217;re getting at, Carrie, my whole issue though is in regards to even the use of &#8220;femininity&#8221; in trying to describe&#8230; anything.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that the scriptural passages you point to depict &#8220;Biblical femininity&#8221;&#8230; because I don&#8217;t even like the word.  Does that make sense?  I may totally be wrong in this, but, to me what those passages point to is how a woman who loves God will be shaped to fit his character, because she&#8217;ll put her hope in God, she&#8217;ll work hard, use the mind God gave her, be generous.  But I don&#8217;t consider any of those things feminine&#8230; because I just really disagree with us using the word, I find the word too wrapped up in cultural and contextual meanings to glean anything Biblical from it.</p>
<p>I am wondering though, why I dislike it so much, and so I&#8217;ll be looking into that.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-449</guid>
		<description>Emily, first of all, I love your honesty.  I think that a LOT of women bristle against the baby-loving, manicure-getting stereotype of what is "feminine."  Both you and Carrie have brought up excellent points about how a one-size-fits-all definition of femininity can be hurtful and condemning to women who don't naturally fit it.  For that, though, I'd like to point you towards Proverbs, chapter 31 for a good, and maybe comforting, version of what femininity can be.  I've always found that chapter comforting - I don't fit the mold of the frilly-pink-dress girl, but those verses describe a real woman, not just an empty stereotype.

Look at verse 17 - this woman isn't avoiding work to protect her manicure.  Throughout the chapter, this woman is shown as a woman with a head for business, who manages what she has well.  The people around her depend on her.  This might be the closest thing to a Biblical picture of femininity, and this woman is doing things which aren't far off from trekking through the woods.  

And then there's 1 Peter 3:3, which says that we're not supposed to focus, as women, on outward appearances, but to focus on developing godly character.  But I hope it's clear that we're not trying to define femininity as "must wear pink dresses," but that we're trying to get at the root of what femininity really is.  That includes the heart level, not just what you wear or whether you like babies.

I don't know if that helps.  But your points reminded me of those passages in the Bible, so I hope that they help flesh this out for you!  In any case, let me know what you come up with - I like trekking through the woods myself, so I'm hoping (and pretty confident) that Biblical femininity has room for that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily, first of all, I love your honesty.  I think that a LOT of women bristle against the baby-loving, manicure-getting stereotype of what is &#8220;feminine.&#8221;  Both you and Carrie have brought up excellent points about how a one-size-fits-all definition of femininity can be hurtful and condemning to women who don&#8217;t naturally fit it.  For that, though, I&#8217;d like to point you towards Proverbs, chapter 31 for a good, and maybe comforting, version of what femininity can be.  I&#8217;ve always found that chapter comforting - I don&#8217;t fit the mold of the frilly-pink-dress girl, but those verses describe a real woman, not just an empty stereotype.</p>
<p>Look at verse 17 - this woman isn&#8217;t avoiding work to protect her manicure.  Throughout the chapter, this woman is shown as a woman with a head for business, who manages what she has well.  The people around her depend on her.  This might be the closest thing to a Biblical picture of femininity, and this woman is doing things which aren&#8217;t far off from trekking through the woods.  </p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s 1 Peter 3:3, which says that we&#8217;re not supposed to focus, as women, on outward appearances, but to focus on developing godly character.  But I hope it&#8217;s clear that we&#8217;re not trying to define femininity as &#8220;must wear pink dresses,&#8221; but that we&#8217;re trying to get at the root of what femininity really is.  That includes the heart level, not just what you wear or whether you like babies.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if that helps.  But your points reminded me of those passages in the Bible, so I hope that they help flesh this out for you!  In any case, let me know what you come up with - I like trekking through the woods myself, so I&#8217;m hoping (and pretty confident) that Biblical femininity has room for that!</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K.</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-447</guid>
		<description>Eh... don't know why half my post is in blue... just throwin that out there.

Also... please, please, I welcome correction in all that I said above.  I heartily recognize that too few of my views are shaped by God or Scripture and too many by the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh&#8230; don&#8217;t know why half my post is in blue&#8230; just throwin that out there.</p>
<p>Also&#8230; please, please, I welcome correction in all that I said above.  I heartily recognize that too few of my views are shaped by God or Scripture and too many by the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K.</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-446</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-446</guid>
		<description>While there's no way to resurrect a beautifully written argument-- which I had and lost-- here is what my basic point was, without the wittiness.  (Can you tell I'm disappointed?? Oy....)

Anyway...

These three words: feminine, femininity, and womanly are not anywhere to be found in the Bible.

The word, feminine, as defined by dictionary.com:

1.	pertaining to a woman or girl: feminine beauty; feminine dress.
2.	having qualities traditionally ascribed to women, as sensitivity or gentleness.
3.	effeminate; womanish: a man with a feminine walk.
4.	belonging to the female sex; female: feminine staff members. 

and another definition from merriam-webster.com:

2: characteristic of or appropriate or unique to women  &lt;a&gt;

Okay.  That lays out pretty well what you've all been talking about, but, here's where I really take issue: the etymology.

First: Middle English, from Anglo-French feminin, from Latin femininus.
Second: It dates to the 14th century.  The 1300's!!! 

Okay.  Now.  I'll be really honest and say I find it insulting to equate femininity with clothes, or with what we consider 'girly' things these days.  It is all, in my view, absolutely contextual and cultural.  The women in Jesus' day wore nearly the same thing the men did.  And they certainly didn't get manicures or their hair done.

So.  If it IS contextual and cultural, then, is it Biblical to define this thing called femininity that doesn't even exist in those terms in the Bible?

Thus, I won't apologize for the things I do that are considered more 'masculine.'  It's just a word issue to me, and a language barrier, to boot.  I am created the way I have been created, with all my traits and quirks and sins and beautiful aspects too.  I tend to think that people of this century have a need to "DEFINE" everything, and I don't like it.  I feel no need to "reconcile my tomboy tendencies" because I absolutely love to go trekking in the woods, climb trees, get bruised and scraped up from rock jumping, and getting SWEATY too.  For me, spending money on beautification, beyond getting my hair cut, is impractical and a waste of the few resources I have.  I have a best girl friend that just isn't good with babies... just doesn't like them... she's a Christian... and how DARE we call her not feminine?  Perhaps, she isn't wired that way because God has other purposes for her.  I disagree that one can "feel" feminine... at least in the ways defined by the examples given above.

Okay.  And now the last kicker.  I can be a feminist.  But what do I mean?  All that means to me is that I know how to filter the situations of this world through the filter of "How does this affect the women here?" so as to gain a better understanding of that situation.  This is a tangent, but I wanted to throw it out there.  I think this kind of critique is necessary in a world that largely ignores the role of women and how women are affected by various circumstances/situations.

Okay.  Shoot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While there&#8217;s no way to resurrect a beautifully written argument&#8211; which I had and lost&#8211; here is what my basic point was, without the wittiness.  (Can you tell I&#8217;m disappointed?? Oy&#8230;.)</p>
<p>Anyway&#8230;</p>
<p>These three words: feminine, femininity, and womanly are not anywhere to be found in the Bible.</p>
<p>The word, feminine, as defined by dictionary.com:</p>
<p>1.	pertaining to a woman or girl: feminine beauty; feminine dress.<br />
2.	having qualities traditionally ascribed to women, as sensitivity or gentleness.<br />
3.	effeminate; womanish: a man with a feminine walk.<br />
4.	belonging to the female sex; female: feminine staff members. </p>
<p>and another definition from merriam-webster.com:</p>
<p>2: characteristic of or appropriate or unique to women  <a></p>
<p>Okay.  That lays out pretty well what you&#8217;ve all been talking about, but, here&#8217;s where I really take issue: the etymology.</p>
<p>First: Middle English, from Anglo-French feminin, from Latin femininus.<br />
Second: It dates to the 14th century.  The 1300&#8217;s!!! </p>
<p>Okay.  Now.  I&#8217;ll be really honest and say I find it insulting to equate femininity with clothes, or with what we consider &#8216;girly&#8217; things these days.  It is all, in my view, absolutely contextual and cultural.  The women in Jesus&#8217; day wore nearly the same thing the men did.  And they certainly didn&#8217;t get manicures or their hair done.</p>
<p>So.  If it IS contextual and cultural, then, is it Biblical to define this thing called femininity that doesn&#8217;t even exist in those terms in the Bible?</p>
<p>Thus, I won&#8217;t apologize for the things I do that are considered more &#8216;masculine.&#8217;  It&#8217;s just a word issue to me, and a language barrier, to boot.  I am created the way I have been created, with all my traits and quirks and sins and beautiful aspects too.  I tend to think that people of this century have a need to &#8220;DEFINE&#8221; everything, and I don&#8217;t like it.  I feel no need to &#8220;reconcile my tomboy tendencies&#8221; because I absolutely love to go trekking in the woods, climb trees, get bruised and scraped up from rock jumping, and getting SWEATY too.  For me, spending money on beautification, beyond getting my hair cut, is impractical and a waste of the few resources I have.  I have a best girl friend that just isn&#8217;t good with babies&#8230; just doesn&#8217;t like them&#8230; she&#8217;s a Christian&#8230; and how DARE we call her not feminine?  Perhaps, she isn&#8217;t wired that way because God has other purposes for her.  I disagree that one can &#8220;feel&#8221; feminine&#8230; at least in the ways defined by the examples given above.</p>
<p>Okay.  And now the last kicker.  I can be a feminist.  But what do I mean?  All that means to me is that I know how to filter the situations of this world through the filter of &#8220;How does this affect the women here?&#8221; so as to gain a better understanding of that situation.  This is a tangent, but I wanted to throw it out there.  I think this kind of critique is necessary in a world that largely ignores the role of women and how women are affected by various circumstances/situations.</p>
<p>Okay.  Shoot.</a></p>
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		<title>By: erica</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-444</link>
		<dc:creator>erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-444</guid>
		<description>KJ, Thanks for pushing me on the masculinity thing. I don't think that it's impossible to be feminine when men aren't being masculine, I was just saying that I think it can be HARDER.  Of course we need to pursue God's design for us as women regardless what other people around us are doing, but I do still think that our tendency to deny parts of our femininity is influenced by what men around us are saying and doing.  And I certainly don't think that a girl has to be in a committed relationship to be truly feminine!  I was speaking more about all the various men in our lives (fathers, brothers, friends, and if you happen to have one, a boyfriend or husband).  Now that I've clarified myself, what do you think? Do we agree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KJ, Thanks for pushing me on the masculinity thing. I don&#8217;t think that it&#8217;s impossible to be feminine when men aren&#8217;t being masculine, I was just saying that I think it can be HARDER.  Of course we need to pursue God&#8217;s design for us as women regardless what other people around us are doing, but I do still think that our tendency to deny parts of our femininity is influenced by what men around us are saying and doing.  And I certainly don&#8217;t think that a girl has to be in a committed relationship to be truly feminine!  I was speaking more about all the various men in our lives (fathers, brothers, friends, and if you happen to have one, a boyfriend or husband).  Now that I&#8217;ve clarified myself, what do you think? Do we agree?</p>
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		<title>By: kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/mind/femininity/#comment-442</link>
		<dc:creator>kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 02:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lily7.com/consider-lily/?p=69#comment-442</guid>
		<description>oh, and Nikki, I like the Miss Congeniality reference. She came into her own a little when forced to put a dress and some makeup on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, and Nikki, I like the Miss Congeniality reference. She came into her own a little when forced to put a dress and some makeup on!</p>
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